Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Perhaps those providing the ‘plausible ‘ reasons for this win could price them all up in a lighthearted Market … 50/1 improved for the track … 33/1 reached a winning Mark etc And no offers they’ve had it right off with a non jigger !! What do you all honestly think the chances are that any of the reasons given here are the real explanation ?? If it was 4/6 non jigger 11/8 genuine improver , where would your money be gentlemen ?
As I understand it , the BHA are to axe about 80 fixtures . To cut 12 from any one course would seem unnecessary and even if it were necessary , surely there are other courses less deserving of fixtures.
The answers to your question ,"should people do the necessary research before purchasing insurance or investing their pension funds" , is YES ! Absolutely yes, and it is beyond belief that you would think otherwise. Gambling has always been populated with people who cannot give their money away fast enough .
Clunky mobiles? My iPhone refreshes the exchanges screen in under a second ! I suppose it’s as much a conspiracy to defraud as a bookmaker putting FOBTs in his shop . I think I will bow out here as it’s entirely possible my views are affected by the fact that I have no sympathy whatsoever for peope who bet in running whilst watching delayed pictures . Zero sympathy and rather than help and nurture and protect these unfathomable people who place no value on their money , I find myself hoping they lose it all. There have been people betting in running from the racecourse since the vetting opportunity arose , be it by laptop on the rails ‘clunky mobile phone’ or at a trading station in a hospitality box . Why on earth would anyone bet on delayed pictures ? It seems to me it’s not even the people getting skinned who are complaining here , it’s the people who are outraged that someone is taking advantage of the fools !
Is it the case that the racecourses have simply downgraded the grades of races in order not to meet the tariffs for the higher grades? For example have they just downgraded a class 4 to a class 5 so that they can keep the prizemoney the same and meet the tariff? If that’s the case then it sounds like They are being obstinate and if they are allowed to dictate the class of individual races as they please then the BHA would seem toothless. At what point are they not allowed to do this ? Can Ascot knock the Champion Stakes back to a class C £15 grand stakes race ? The horsemans group do not seem in the least bit as you’ve described them Pinza – the tariffs make sense and are well intentioned for the good of racing . However if the racecourses can behave as they choose , it would seem they need regulating more strictly.
The racecourses are not at fault here – it’s hardly a conspiracy to defraud. When there are twenty thousand in the crowd watching the racing , each and everyone of them could potentially be betting in running with an iPhone , to charge them to sit down and do it is neither here nor there. The ones who should be morally obliged here are not the racecourses or even betfair it is ATR who are putting out a very poor product and they shouldn’t need the Gaming Commission to force their hand , they should do the decent thing and carry a permanent on screen disclaimer stating the pictures are NOT LIVE.
The people on course are betting real time and in the real world ! The racecourses are doing no wrong as their customers do not have an unfair advantage so much as the ATR customers are being disadvantaged. The SIS feed is far quicker and if the regulators need to step in it should be to force ATR to carry a permanent on screen message stating the pictures are not live. How this can be turned around to be a criticism of the racecourses I have no idea. There are exchange betting trading centres with SIS feeds whose inplay customers are also skinning ATR viewers …are they also in the wrong ?
Clearly the two cases are very different , however there are similarities in the concealment of the truth by the two trainers. I would be very surprised if the BHA could have read the findings of the RCVS investigation and NOT thought there was good cause to haul Henderson back in . If we didn’t think it was simply the old school tie that kept Henderson from the drop , we would only be left with unfathomable inconsistencies to ponder. The RCVS found that Henderson and his vet had systematically falsified records for a long long time in order to conceal the fact that they were medicating horses on raceday . Henderson claimed he was unaware that horses could only have food and water on raceday. As I understand it the substance involved has not always been detectable ? …or "a detector" in his own words! Is it any wonder when he is allowed to continue training that people start to wonder if preferential treatment has been shown , for whatever reason?
I most certainly will not be glad to know that you are bailing from this topic Pinza . The evidence from the RCVS hearing is most damning and not in the least bit open to interpretation . That you are unable to admit that you are wrong and would rather no longer post on this topic does you no credit. There is no mud slinging here in Henderson s own words he would not have used banned substances if he’d known they were detectable in testing . The findings of the RCVS were that he had routinely falsified records to hide illegally medicating on race day. No ambiguity there , the man is a drug cheat and the sport needs cleaning up properly.
Pinza , you have said the same to me on another thread concerning convicted drug cheat Henderson . You seem to be a serial apologist for this man of dubious character despite your repeated claims that he is not someone you like. You have again brought the term ‘witch hunt’ to the table , a term which I automatically associate with persecution of the innocent ; not an appropriate phrase when referring to criticism of a convicted drug cheat. Class prejudice ? Indeed not very tasteful but unfortunately all too often the first cry of defence when one of the upper class is criticised or accused , equally as distasteful as career criminals claiming investigations into them are simply racism. Henderson is a cheat (proven) and several dubious activities have increased general scepticism concerning his behaviour – that goes with the territory I’m afraid . Conspiracy theories : "the old school tie" is a phrase that we have all heard throughout our lives it is a phrase that I imagine predates all on here and the school in question as I’m sure you are aware is that of Henderson . Eton was indeed the very school that phrase refers to . There are many walks of life where comradeship comes above all else and where members will do whatever they can to assist one another , Freemasons , armed service regiments and old Etonians are just some of these . This is not theory , this is something that has been admitted many times . There’s no such thing as an ex marine for instance . You are no more able to prove Henderson was not leniently treated due to the ‘ old boys network ‘ than anyone else is able to prove otherwise , thus your views are just theories , all be it non conspiracy theories . I strongly suggest you read the transcripts of Hendersons BHA hearing AND those from the RCVS hearing , which are most illuminating . I have received nothing from the BHA re my inquiry as to whether the case would be reopened in the light of the evidence given by Henderson to the RCVS. It would be extremely hard to defend Henderson in any way once you have read those transcripts , in my opinion he comes across as a liar and a habitual cheat . Who could defend his , "well we wouldn’t have used it if we’d known it was a detector" ?????
The rules are not really ok as they are , some of this guys lay backs were a fiver and he’s been warned off for 18 months ? Talk about a machine gun to kill a rabbit . As for laying your own horse manipulating the Market to the disadvantage of punters ; I assume you mean afew early lay bets at ever increasing odds to create a drift which , after gaining momentum , enables some much later bigger back bets at bigger prices. That is not manipulating the Market , it’s manipulating the thousands of people who form the Market , if they’re prepared to lay a bigger price because they think the horse is drifting and unfancied , so what ? If they want to be a layer they should lay their own opinions , form their own tissue price and lay it , if they’re just laying drifters and backing movers , that’s their own fault and their own responsibility . If you’re a net backer of your horse and don’t stand to profit outright if it loses , any trading should be allowed.
I think the rule is flawed . I understand it is there in it’s most basic form and it is clear cut – black and white – you can’t lay your own horse. However if you are just greening up , simply arbing a trade , as long as you remain a net backer , you are not profiting outright from your horse losing. I think the rules should allow for trading and arbitrating then each case can be tried on it’s merits.
Race fixing would indeed be difficult to achieve . Unless there was a quiet dirty winter AW meeting with atrocious prizemoney and a few trainers were able to coordinate together every so often , when one is gambled and wins it’s the usual suspects with runners in that race .maybe the same six or seven , perhaps there’s a ten horse race with three or four outside horses that can’t win anyway. All in all , not that hard to organise. Hard to keep quiet though.
The NOTW obtained information illegally via phone taps , that much is true but the information obtained wasn’t false. I don’t see how something the NOTW prints can be discounted based on this. There is nothing to suggest that the info will be false – quite the opposite . They may have used immoral and illegal methods but they have certainly eliminated all the guesswork. Wolverhampton mafia , trainers and jockeys alike , WATCH OUT . We all know who you are , maybe the news of the screws do too .
Was a reason given for rejecting the foundation bid? How closely involved were the BHA in that bid?
Good evening Pinza , I have several questions , maybe you have some of the answers. Firstly I think the theory of backing their horses in to favouritism in the classics has nothing to do with winnings just the SP of the derby winner .as a punter I can see the thinking behind this although I don’t know if breeders would think the same way – for instance Makfi 33/1 …first thought , unexpected winner of a Guineas where none of the form going into the race stood up . When the fav wins a classic the opposite is the first thought , he won it as expected the form stood up. So when I heard rumours of Coolmore shortening Fame and Glory it certainly seems plausible to me. How do you see it as devaluing the bloodstock ? My questions , how long since the Irish Champion replaced the English equivalent as the primary target for bloodstock interests or was it ever thus? The English triple crown is no longer a target because of the bloodstock worlds newfound interest in Speed influence , is this not an indication that bloodstock interests change with time and can in turn devalue races , even the worlds oldest classic? I don’t know if recent derby winners have been syndicated to japan or America for more money than winners of the Dubai world cup or breeders cup classic ? I do know that John Magnier has said in recent years that it was a mistake to shorten the French Derby to 1m2f and that The Derby is the race to win and he will continue to try to win it.it must be remembered though that HE is the man who developed the whole Derby winner multi million stud value scenario and has built his empire to some extent around the derby. The bloodstock world IS changing though 1m6f is already taboo it seems to me only Shadwell Darley Juddmonte and Coolmore are interested in the Derby
it’s ( yet another ) clear breach of the rules by the old Etonian.
And the relevance of his school here is…..???
Isn’t it time to stop this witch hunt, people? It’s all
so
last week….
Believe me Pinza I would be more than happy if there was no relevance at all . Somehow I think that’s unlikely. A witch hunt implies that the innocent are being hunted , do that analogy is quite wrong , Henderson is guilty and I would be astounded if anyone who has read the transcripts of both the BHA hearing and the RCVS hearing could come away thinking that justice has been done and that it should be swept under the carpet . If you are happy with the goings on at seven barrows Pinza then that is up to you , you have been an apologist for Henderson on every thread concerning him . It is not your place to say others should not be asking questions and demanding answers from the regulatory authorities , it’s not even your place to recommend what should or should not be discussed on here as you seem to have done each time the subject is brought up. You must be happy with the leniency of the BHA and the media blackout in the racing post and on channel 4 , I for one am not.
