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Those that deny races can be fixed either know nothing, or too much.
Yet another young jockey quits, with health and emotional problems, and the family are very concerned and upset with the lack of protection given. They know all about what goes on within racing.
Please, if you are not directly involved at the sharp end, you have no idea of what can and does go on. If you are involved and still genuinely believe all racing is straight then fair enough. How that is possible is amazing.What they mean by race fixing in this instance is laying horses knowing that the jockey will not try to win. It will be low grade races on the all weather and turf. The jockeys are not household names.
What they mean by race fixing in this instance is laying horses knowing that the jockey will not try to win. It will be low grade races on the all weather and turf. The jockeys are not household names.
So is that ok?
Is what ok?
I will repeat your quote:
What they mean by race fixing in this instance is laying horses knowing that the jockey will not try to win. It will be low grade races on the all weather and turf. The jockeys are not household names.
The jockeys who are not household names might wish to be so. They do as told (not try to win) because they hope one day they will be rewarded. If connected, they know they will be unless absolutely useless or unfortunately injured.
Any race that is fixed, be it low or high grade, usually involves a jockey. Some might be happy to do as they are told, others are certainly not. For those that refuse point blank, or disobey, that is the end of their career. I have seen a jockey’s rides dry up overnight which I find amazing.
Those who do as told, and then find they are discarded, it can be devastating as all dreams have gone. What they do not realise, and hopefully some may read this, they are as good as, if not better, than the connected ones.Reet Hard
Where money is involved nothing is impossibe or improbable.
It’s true. The moment exchanges opened their doors, fixing of all sports associated with gambling became exponentially easier and more probable. Like it or not, any race worth less than 5k stopped being a fair betting medium the moment everyone and their granny were able to back horses to lose with the click of a mouse.
Is what ok?
I will repeat your quote:
What they mean by race fixing in this instance is laying horses knowing that the jockey will not try to win. It will be low grade races on the all weather and turf. The jockeys are not household names.
The jockeys who are not household names might wish to be so. They do as told (not try to win) because they hope one day they will be rewarded. If connected, they know they will be unless absolutely useless or unfortunately injured.
Any race that is fixed, be it low or high grade, usually involves a jockey. Some might be happy to do as they are told, others are certainly not. For those that refuse point blank, or disobey, that is the end of their career. I have seen a jockey’s rides dry up overnight which I find amazing.
Those who do as told, and then find they are discarded, it can be devastating as all dreams have gone. What they do not realise, and hopefully some may read this, they are as good as, if not better, than the connected ones.I heard one of the jocks names last Sunday he’s a local boy and though he’s not a household name he’s with a big stable and
if
true that’s his career wrecked.
The Blessed Martin
wrote:
I heard one of the jocks names last Sunday he’s a local boy and though he’s not a household name he’s with a big stable and if true that’s his career wrecked.
Yes, that might be the end of his career. Terrible, but do the BHA, or anyone else within the racing establishment care?
I was stirred up again today because I had direct contact with a young man who is suffering from trying very hard to make the grade as a jockey, and failing. This is not because he wasn’t a talented rider, but simply because he did not do as he was told. He was fed up with not riding winners when he knew he could. He was not connected. Those that are, are protected.
As for Exchanges, they have made corruption easier, but they have also exposed and made it more visible.I think Nor1 has touched on the bigger picture here. Who the hell is really looking after these kids?! It’s an industry that thrives on ‘young blood’ as it were, and it doesn’t seem like there is any help?
Surely, these lads wouldn’t feel the need to get involved if they felt their futures were financially secure? The equestrian industry as an entire is not overly stable, it’s low paid, depends on a few with a lot of money and it is hugely difficult to break into the top ranks. Within racing especially, careers are largely short lived, and there must be some concerns about finances at the end of it, especially for jockeys that didn’t reach the prolific levels like that of McCoy, but for people so young to have insecurities is worrying.
I’m prepared to be lynched for saying this… The people that tend to fall into jobs with horses, be it a groom on a dealers yard, trainee jockey, whatever, tend to come into it very young, usually around 16, and tend not to be the types one would describe as intimidatingly intelligent. Obviously not the case for everyone, but I’ve seen enough of it first hand to feel like it’s not an unfair statement. They are pretty easy prey if worried about money for people who want races fixed. Just because they’ve left home doesn’t mean they are adults (and that’s not patronising, i moved out at 18 feeling like i was ready to take on the world, idiot!), and they still need a support network in place, even if it’s just for a bit of advise regarding the likes of overdrafts, so you would never be in a place where you felt you NEEDED to cheat the system to live. Obviously, there will always be people who do it out of want, and that’s a bigger problem to tackle, but with the people new to it, trying to live off a tiny wage there needs to be more support. Racing Welfare do a fine job but it seems pretty centralised? It’s not an easy job or an easy life and I think it’s important that people are there to help people who feel like they have been backed into a corner by either lack of money, or lack of money management skills.
I’ll jump off the soapbox now
To be making remarks about News of the World i think is missing the point.
I suspect when it comes out, we wont be surprised or shall i wont be surprised with the culprits. If Fixing goes on day to day i think its going to be another nail to weigh the sport down with after more deaths of horses the past few weeks. I would have love a massive ban for these trainers/owners/jockeys.
As a betting medium i am becoming largely withdrawn from racing now day by day. Seems to me that the lack of information is doing the game unbelievable harm.
- Total Posts 17716
Just in case there’s any doubt, the term ‘race fixing’ implies that the
result
is a foregone conclusion and, unlike match fixing, requires every participant to be party to that collusion.
That’s aWorld
away from instructing a jockey to give a horse an easy, and infinitely more complex (and expensive) to engineer.
Race fixing would indeed be difficult to achieve . Unless there was a quiet dirty winter AW meeting with atrocious prizemoney and a few trainers were able to coordinate together every so often , when one is gambled and wins it’s the usual suspects with runners in that race .maybe the same six or seven , perhaps there’s a ten horse race with three or four outside horses that can’t win anyway. All in all , not that hard to organise. Hard to keep quiet though.
A shame, but nothing we didn’t already know, sadly.
It’ll make for painful reading.
Any chance of refunds for punters once all is established?
- Total Posts 17716
Any chance of refunds for punters once all is established?
This is one of the law mysteries.
Just in case there’s any doubt, the term ‘race fixing’ implies that the
result
is a foregone conclusion and, unlike match fixing, requires every participant to be party to that collusion.
That’s aWorld
away from instructing a jockey to give a horse an easy, and infinitely more complex (and expensive) to engineer.
Not every participant is involved and that is why the fix doesn’t always work.
A particular race had fourteen runners yet only three were employed. Unfortunately the horse that was meant to win did not (fairly long price reflecting a few previous efforts). An outsider surprisingly won. The jockey, who was totally unaware of the fix, found out after the race. Connections were not happy to say the least!
He did not report the matter because he had no written proof. He felt speaking out would damage his career and he wanted to continue riding.……Who the hell is really looking after these kids?! It’s an industry that thrives on ‘young blood’ as it were, and it doesn’t seem like there is any help?
Surely, these lads wouldn’t feel the need to get involved if they felt their futures were financially secure? The equestrian industry as an entire is not overly stable, it’s low paid, depends on a few with a lot of money and it is hugely difficult to break into the top ranks. Within racing especially, careers are largely short lived, and there must be some concerns about finances at the end of it, especially for jockeys that didn’t reach the prolific levels like that of McCoy, but for people so young to have insecurities is worrying.
I’m prepared to be lynched for saying this… The people that tend to fall into jobs with horses, be it a groom on a dealers yard, trainee jockey, whatever, tend to come into it very young, usually around 16, and tend not to be the types one would describe as intimidatingly intelligent. Obviously not the case for everyone, but I’ve seen enough of it first hand to feel like it’s not an unfair statement. They are pretty easy prey if worried about money for people who want races fixed. Just because they’ve left home doesn’t mean they are adults (and that’s not patronising, i moved out at 18 feeling like i was ready to take on the world, idiot!), and they still need a support network in place, even if it’s just for a bit of advise regarding the likes of overdrafts, so you would never be in a place where you felt you NEEDED to cheat the system to live. Obviously, there will always be people who do it out of want, and that’s a bigger problem to tackle, but with the people new to it, trying to live off a tiny wage there needs to be more support. Racing Welfare do a fine job but it seems pretty centralised? It’s not an easy job or an easy life and I think it’s important that people are there to help people who feel like they have been backed into a corner by either lack of money, or lack of money management skills.
I’ll jump off the soapbox now
No-one properly looks after the youngsters when they come into racing. They are from all sorts of backgrounds and almost all of them want to be a jockey. Racing school is where the dream begins. A short induction and then sent to a trainer. That’s where problems can start.
Youngsters, particularly the apprentices and conditionals, should be attached to the racing school, not the trainer. They can spend six month periods with a variety of trainers, paid for by them, and then report back to the school each time for a week or two. Their health and welfare would then be monitored.
Until they are more protected, the media will continue to have their stories of corruption. It is whilst they are fledging jockeys they are so vulnerable and are susceptible to ‘grooming’, a term used by the BHA.
That is not to say corruption would be eliminated, but it would be a more healthy environment if control was taken away from the trainers.
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