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What got it sorted in the end was Graham Woods at the Racing Post contacting a PR person at Ladbrokes to verify my claims. They quickly saw sense!
Graham very modestly says he didn’t really do anything other than contact them, but obviously it was his intervention that got it sorted for me. Many thanks, Graham.
I am pleased to say that common sense finally prevailed and I picked up my cheque for the full amount today.
Thanks to all forum members who commented on this thread.
..received a reply from David in Customer Services which stated: “I can confirm that if you place a bet on the coupon your receipt will show the correct price which may differ from the coupon price. … You should be notified regarding any price change from the coupon but as best policy you should check your receipt.”
Are Ladbrokes not effectively saying that they can change prices and do not HAVE to notify you…but SHOULD?
What is "best policy"?…hmmmm:)
They are under no contractual obligation to tell you the "updated" price?
I do sympathise with you but feel that they would not lose a court case because they have covered themselves in their T’s and C’s. if they stated "customer will be paid according to the prices on their receipt" then you’d have a cast-iron case.
The forum member who tried to obtain the market changes
from Ladbrokes did highlight their desire not to help, and perhaps make it more difficult for you to prove any wrongdoing on their side.Zip
The coupons say "Please check your receipt carefully."
The bet receipts show the updated prices.
Two people at Customer Services have confirmed that the betting slips will show the "correct price" which may be different from the coupon price.
Given all of the above, I don’t see how they are justified in any way in what they are doing.
If, however, they are justified, for every punter in the land it means whatever price is printed on the slip, if you win Ladbrokes can give you any price they feel like after the event.
Ladbrokes have refused to provide the information I requested, instead pointing me to the results database located on their website (which, of course, provides no historical data).
How shamefully predictable.
It is interesting, though, that Shaktar are listed as having won at Evens rather than 6/5, which begs the question; where did the latter price come from?
I think that the results pages from their website show the last price available on-line – they do not necessarily bear any relevance to the prices available in the shops.
Please excuse my earlier tone, Schmekeldecker, it’s just been one of those weeks. Be assured that if there’s a company I’d like to work for less than Ladbrokes, I’m yet to come across it.
The point I was trying to make in my previous post was that if the prices had changed but (for whatever reason) weren’t shown on your betting slip, then Ladbrokes’s decision to adjust your returns would have been entirely reasonable. However, if they have confirmed that the prices were correct at the time the bets were struck then they clearly have no excuse for not settling each according to the terms of the coupon.
Continuing to bang your head against the brick wall that is Ladbrokes’s customer services – they are by far the worst I have ever experienced – obviously isn’t going to do you any favours, so legal action should be a very real consideration at this point. It may be wise to ‘suggest’ to the manager of the shop in which your bets were placed that legal advice is going to be sought, in the hope that you’ll be paid in full without the hassle of lodging a claim. An e-mail to the Racing Post (Bruce Millington’s address is editor@racingpost.com I believe) or ATR could also prove beneficial.
If it’s any help – in terms of independent verification at least – ‘Claire’ of Ladbrokes’s Live Chat team confirmed to me that, should actual prices differ from those printed on any football coupon, the customer’s receipt will display the updated odds. I have also requested a copy of the match result markets for the Europa League games played on 20/08/2009, which are kindly being provided by Live Chat team member ‘Saba’.
If and when they arrive – if they don’t, Ladbrokes will only be incriminating themselves – I’ll post them here immediately.
No worries, mate. May I offer you a handshake?
I appreciate you asking Ladbrokes for confirmation on the fact of the slip showing the "correct odds". So now we have had Steve, David and Claire at Customer Services confirm this point but in my specific case they won’t settle them properly.
I think the problem with Ladbrokes is that Customer Services defers to the area manager whom I assume is the person who decided to pay me short in the first place. My heart sank when Customer Services said that "the matter is now being investigated by the Area Manager". It was no real surprise when I was told "The Area Manager is happy with the settlement of all of your bets and is not going to resettle them".
Years ago, someone I know contacted Customer Services at Ladbrokes over an issue where they were not honouring a local shop offer that was clearly displayed on the wall of the shop. Customer Services basically said that they understood his position and they would like to pay him in full but the area manager doesn’t want to so that’s that. As it was only £60 or something he didn’t take it further.
It seems the tail is still wagging the dog.
Though as Drone says, IBAS will have the definitive answer.
Sorry Figgers, but NO NO NO – please read Wit’s advice in the ‘Betting Issues’ thread. IBAS will not have a definitive answer – what they will do is judge the dispute with reference to Ladbrokes’ rules, however, those rules may not be lawful.
I’m not saying punters should never use IBAS, rather that if they do they do so on the understanding that they are not bound by the judgement.
Also, I don’t know what the maximum amount is that can be claimed in the ‘Small Claims Court’ but for the sake of 20 large at the very least I think Schme should seek proper legal advise from a contract lawyer.
I agree, Pompete. I have no intention of going to IBAS. They have a bad record of making irrational decisions. On many occasions their rulings contain references to things that "would have" happened, e.g. prices or terms that would have been on the screens or the fact that the bookmaker would never have offered odds that high etc. without any evidence to support it.
Also, unless things have changed, the punter makes his case, the bookie responds to IBAS and then IBAS make their ruling without the punter being allowed to challenge what the bookie says – even if it’s a pack of lies.
I have already spoken to my solicitor who thinks that it’s pretty straightforward. I think he said the limit for small claims is £5,000. This sort of case would only be half a day in court or less. Assuming I win, Ladbrokes would pay my costs. If I lose (unlikely, I think!) I pay their costs.
As far as I’m aware, the "agreed" price is the one Ladbrokes are offering at the time- so, technically, they would be settling the slip correctly.
However, since the 2005 Gambling Act came into force, failure of staff to notify punters of any changes to prices which are printed on betting slips (a message should flash up on their screen as the bet is struck) could well be tantamount to breaking the trade descriptions act, if not actually doing so, seeing as a betting slip is now a legally-binding contract.Friggo,
My first five winning slips actually had the coupon price of 13/8 printed on them. Subsequent slips had the lower price of 6/5 on them.
My initial request to Ladbrokes was to settle the bets as per the prices on the slips.
However, your comments about the trade descriptions act and the fact that I was never informed of any price changes have made me think that as it looks like I am being forced to go down the legal route, I might as well see whether I have a chance legally of getting all of the bets paid at the coupon prices. Up to now I had assumed there was no chance of that happening.
If the prices on your betting slip were incorrect – i.e. not reflective of the prices at the time the bet was struck – then Ladbrokes have done absolutely the right thing in recalculating your returns.
When were the bets placed (date and time) and on what matches?
The "correct price" for the bets, as confirmed by two people at Ladbrokes Customer Services is the price which is printed on the betting slip. So, by definition they are "reflective of the prices at the time the bet was struck". This is what most people would expect.
When Ladbrokes change a price, it is reflected on the betting slips, which is why the actual coupon said "These prices are subject to change. Please remember to check your receipt carefully." If one checks the first five bets listed above in my in initial post it says 13/8.
My issue is that Ladbrokes are not paying me out at the prices printed on the betting slips.
I would prefer to be paid out at the coupon prices for all my bets, however since the later bets actually show the changed price of 6/5 (from 13/8) I don’t hold any hope of this happening, which is why I have simply focussed on trying to get paid at those prices printed on my slips.
As I have said, not one Ladbrokes employee mentioned any price changes at the time the bets were struck.
As I said in the post above, the bets were placed on 20 August. The matches were UEFA Europa League matches.
What do you mean by "Ladbrokes … recalculating your returns"?
Do you have any specific knowledge of this?
Do you work for Ladbrokes?
I’m usually keen to position myself alongside the punter in cases such as this, but please forgive me if my sympathies don’t extend to someone who has just pocketed £150,000.
If only all of our weekends could be so bad
The football coupons of which you speak are generally available days in advance of the matches they cover and the prices listed correct at the time of printing. However, fluctuations in associated markets can’t be reflected on the coupon itself (for obvious reasons) and as such any bets placed can only be settled at the odds available at the time.
It is my assumption that the scanning software Ladbrokes uses merely interprets the information provided on the coupon being processed, with no real-time adjustment for changes made to any one price. So bets placed within moments of a coupon having been issued will read exactly the same as bets placed several days later, even though each individual market may not be the same.
If the bets you have queried were struck at a time when a significant price change would appear either unreasonable or unlikely then Ladbrokes may have a case to answer, otherwise I can’t see that they’ve done anything wrong.
I’m not seeking your sympathy but I’m not really sure where you’re coming from. Do you think it’s OK for someone to be ripped off if they are still left with a six-figure sum? An old lady with £200,000 loses £20,000 to a conman – is that OK?
Your assumption about the scanning software interpreting the information on the coupon with no real-time adjustment for changes made to prices is totally wrong.
I placed other bets after the bets in question which did have a different price on them – clearly the price changed at some time after my initial bets although at no point did any Ladbrokes staff member inform me of any price changes whatsoever when placing the bets.
My complaint concerns Ladbrokes not settling at the prices printed on my betting slips.
Fcuking robbing
http://www.sherv.net/cm/page/hidden/skype/bandit.gif
If you do a search for ‘Betting Issue’ by Anglo German you will find a thread in which forum member Wit gives some execellent advise which may help.
Good luck with this and well done with your bets.
What match was is that went from 13/8 to 6/5?
It was Shakhtar on 20 August.
Thanks for pointing out the "Betting Issue" thread.
