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I’m amazed to hear stud fees aren’t that good in the USA…are they lower than Europe or are we talking about in comparison to available prize money?
It’s not that stud fees are small, it’s that few people want to pay them! The days of Storm Cat’s $500,000 and A.P. Indy’s $300,000 are over, and most farms realize that.
I fear Zenyatta’s owners are making a big mistake by racing her again. Her unbeaten record will surely go. Mark my words.
I don’t think it’s the unbeaten record they’re after, it’s the chance to gain respect from the eastern contingent and from Rachel Alexandra fans, to break the 16-consecutive-wins record of Miss Woodford/Citation/Cigar, to become the highest earning filly or mare in history, to get the American public interested in racing outside of the Kentucky Derby.
Zenyatta could wasily be better at 6. She’s never really been tested in any of her races. She’s only raced once against males, it’s time to see what she’s got on a real dirt track in the east. Especially because the older male division in the US actually looks decent for once. Summer Bird, Macho Again (horribly inconsistent, but when he’s "on" he’s fantastic), Rail Trip, Misremembered, Papa Clem (did well on the Triple Crown trail before an injury, returned with a win yesterday), Blame, Mine That Bird, even Gio Ponti are coming back for more. It’s one of the good things about this market, stud fees aren’t high enough to warrant being retired so early.
One of the big complaints about her season last year, besides only racing 5 times compared to Rachel’s 8, was that she never left the California synthetic. It’s common knowledge that the competition out west is generally inferior to those on the eastern tracks. Rachel Alexandra’s owner Jess Jackson has stated many times that he will never race Rachel on a synthetic track. On the other hand, the Mosses have said that they want to avoid NYRA tracks (Belmont, Saratoga, Aqueduct) because of the stress caused by detention barns. Probably that’s an excuse to keep Zenyatta in her California comfort zone. However, I think they’ll be forced to race in New York at least once if they want a dirt prep before the Classic.
Meanwhile racing fans in the US want it to be dyed brown to look more like dirt. You can’t please everyone!
It doesn’t take a big field to make a good race-even a match race betweeen talents like Denman and Kauto Star would be a treat. In these sorts of races there isn’t any value in betting a no-hoper or an odds-on favorite, so it’s best to just enjoy the spectacle.
Horses like Imperial Commander, Cooldine, and Madison du Berlais aren’t exactly chopped liver, and if the two stablemates wear themselves out in battle, any of them could steal the Cup.
Yeah, i suppose that could happen if you believe in pixies aswell.
It’s horse racing, and it’s a steeplechase-nothing is set in stone until race has been run.
Channel 4 just showed a replay of two jockeys exchanging physical blows during an all weather race and Tommo described it in mirthful tones as "great to see".
How can any responsible journalist see anything of merit in behaviour that is not only potentially dangerous to jockeys and horses but is detrimental to the public image of racing that so many people are working so hard to improve?
Tommo, you could have at least condemned this disgraceful aggression instead of seeming to condone it.
KIf you’re talking about Philadelphia Park race #5 last Friday, with the two jocks in fisticuffs, that was on dirt and both have been suspended indefinitely while waiting for a hearing. Neither were very good-they won’t be missed-but it says something about the general image of racing when it takes something like this to get it on ESPN, while the Eclipse awards and myriad of stakes races this weekend don’t warrant a mention. In any case, calling the fight "great to see" isn’t really a consolation to the folks who actually wagered on the race, and the connections of the horses involved.
It doesn’t take a big field to make a good race-even a match race betweeen talents like Denman and Kauto Star would be a treat. In these sorts of races there isn’t any value in betting a no-hoper or an odds-on favorite, so it’s best to just enjoy the spectacle.
Horses like Imperial Commander, Cooldine, and Madison du Berlais aren’t exactly chopped liver, and if the two stablemates wear themselves out in battle, any of them could steal the Cup.
You are forgetting one big difference-parimutuel betting. The majority of wagering goes directly to the track, plus tracks generally have a "takeout" of 16-20% of all money won, more for exotic wagering. Betting went up massively since the advent of vertical (exacta, trifecta, superfecta) and horizontal (Daily Double, Pick 3, Pick 4, Pick 6) wagering, plus the carryover of Pick 6 jackpots that rolls into the next day when no one picks the 6 races correctly.
But the real reason why many American tracks offer such big purses is slot machine money, which keeps some tracks ("racinos") afloat. For example, here’s an overview of this Saturday’s cards at two tracks often considered to have some of the cheapest and slowest horses this side of the Mississippi.
Beulah-no casino
Race 1 – 1:15 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta / Daily Double Pick 3 (Races 1-2-3)
MAIDEN CLAIMING $4,000Purse $3,700. For Maidens, Fillies And Mares Three Years Old And Upward.
Race 2 – 1:43 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta / Pick 3 (Races 2-3-4)
CLAIMING $2,500Purse $3,500. For Fillies And Mares Three Years Old And Upward Which Have Not Won A Race In 2009-2010.
Race 3 – 2:11 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta / Pick 3 (Races 3-4-5) 25 Cent Fortune6 (Races 3-8)
MAIDEN CLAIMING $2,500Purse $3,400. For Maidens, Three Years Old And Upward.
Race 4 – 2:39 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta / Pick 3 (Races 4-5-6)
ALLOWANCEPurse $8,350. (Includes $1,650 – OTF – Ohio Thoroughbred Fund). For Registered Ohio Bred Fillies And Mares Three Years Old And Upward Which Have Never Won Two Races Other Than Maiden, Claiming Or Starter Or Which Have Never Won Three Races.
Race 5 – 3:07 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta / Pick 4 (Races 5-6-7-8)
CLAIMING $3,500Purse $4,100. For Fillies And Mares Three Years Old And Upward.
Race 6 – 3:35 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta / Pick 3 (Races 6-7-8)
CLAIMING $4,000Purse $3,900. For Fillies And Mares Three Years Old And Upward Which Have Never Won Two Races.
Race 7 – 4:03 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta / Daily Double
CLAIMING $2,500Purse $3,500. For Three Year Olds And Upward Which Have Never Won Three Races.
Race 8 – 4:31 PM Exacta / Trifecta / Superfecta & 10 Cent Superfecta
CLAIMING $2,500Purse $3,500. For Three Year Olds And Upward Which Have Not Won Three Races In 2009-2010 Or Which Have Never Won Four Races.
Charles Town, a racino
Race 1 – 7:15 PM Daily Double (1-2) / Pick 3 (Races 1-2-3) / Exacta / Trifecta ($.50) Superfecta
CLAIMING $5,000 – $4,500Purse $12,000. For Fillies And Mares Four Years Old And Upward Which Have Never Won Two Races.
Race 2 – 7:39 PM Pick 4 (Races 2-3-4-5) / Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta Daily Double (2-3)
MAIDEN CLAIMING $5,000 – $4,500Purse $11,000. For Maidens, Four And Five Years Old.
Race 3 – 8:03 PM Pick 3 (Races 3-4-5) / Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta Daily Double (3-4)
CLAIMING $5,000 – $4,500Purse $12,000. For Fillies And Mares Four Years Old And Upward Which Have Never Won Three Races.
Race 4 – 8:27 PM Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta / Daily Double (4-5)
CLAIMING $5,000 – $4,500Purse $11,000. For Fillies And Mares Four Years Old And Upward Which Have Not Won A Race Since August 16, 2009.
Race 5 – 8:51 PM Pick 3 (Races 5-6-7) / Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta Daily Double (5-6)
MAIDEN SPECIAL WEIGHTPurse $28,000. For Accredited West Virginia-Bred Maidens, Fillies And Mares Four And Five Years Old.
Race 6 – 9:15 PM Pick 4 (Races 6-7-8-9) / Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta Daily Double (6-7)
CLAIMING $5,000 – $4,500Purse $11,000. For Four Year Olds And Upward Which Have Not Won Two Races Since August 16, 2009.
Race 7 – 9:39 PM Pick 3 (Races 7-8-9) / Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta Daily Double (7-8)
STARTER ALLOWANCE $5,000Purse $22,000. For Four Year Olds And Upward Which Have Started For A Claiming Price Of $5,000 Or Less Since January 16, 2008.
Race 8 – 10:03 PM Daily Double(8-9) / Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta
ALLOWANCEPurse $29,000. For Three Year Olds Which Have Never Won Three Races.
Race 9 – 10:27 PM Exacta / Trifecta / ($.50) Superfecta
CLAIMING $5,000 – $4,500Purse $12,000. For Four Year Olds And Upward Which Have Never Won Two Races.
At Beulah, purses are less than the claiming price, while at CT they are more than double the claiming price. Now, none of these horses are probably up to the level of even Southwell nags (although some of them once were), but even in this age of declining wagering both sides of the Atlantic, one track is "thriving" while the other is on the verge of closing. All because of slot machines.
Incidentally, the year before slots were introduced, 1992, the biggest stakes purse at Charles Town was around $50,000. This year is the second running of the Charles Town Classic with a million-dollar purse, in addition to two other $500,000 stakes, a $400,000 stakes, and several $250,000 stakes. That’s Santa Anita, Saratoga kind of money, for relatively slow horses.
If all I cared about was wagering, I wouldn’t be a jumps racing fan-the vast majority of them in the US are non-parimutual events. I became interested in racing because I was a rider, and any money I win is a bonus.
Of course you can watch on the track, but you may have to be on tiptoes
. Standing room only! The weather is generally nice, though, so it’s not bad.Apparently a horse that won four G1s in 2009 is considered equal to a horse who hasn’t won a race in two years. Would any of Youmzain’s performances this year catch Gio Ponti in, say, the Man O’War?
Gio Ponti’s rating is an artificial surface rating, Youmzain’s is a turf rating – you are not comparing like with like.
Anyway Eurpoean form is stronger than US form.
What was Gio’s highest rating in his 4 turf wins?
Buy tickets as early as possible, that’s the biggest thing. It will be PACKED, even though Churchill is huge, and the festivities are nearly all day, really all week. If you can, go to Oaks day on Friday-the crowd is a little smaller, and you’ll be able to actually see the track.
The whole Louisville area is nice, don’t forget to drive out to Lexington for the Kentucky Horse Park (home of Cigar, Funny Cide et. al.), or visit some of the breeding farms (Calumet and Claiborne especially). There will be much more info available on the Derby website as it gets closer.Apparently a horse that won four G1s in 2009 is considered equal to a horse who hasn’t won a race in two years. Would any of Youmzain’s performances this year catch Gio Ponti in, say, the Man O’War?
Go Bird Bowl 2010!
(I’m not suggesting anyone actually bet on the Ravens, they’re one of the most inconsistent teams in football. As a Washingtonian I’m obligated to root for them following the Redskins inevitable mid-season collapse)Interesting to note Kempton are considering switching Saturday’s turf fixture to the AW.
However "bumpers and Flat races for jumpers being considered" – perhaps they read this forum!!!
Will we have a 2m 4f flat race on the Kempton Polytrack?
I don’t see why not, although the time would be painfully slow. Races go off-turf sometimes in the US, because our tracks deal with all sorts of ridiculous weather ( i. e. the Kentucky flood this past summer) and they get used much more.
Without being the prophet of doom…the 2012 derby is 2.5 years away…will Her Maj even still be with us?
To be honest how many people will tune into or get involved in the Queens Diamond Jubilee CElebrations? I dont believe the Derby should be moved just for the benefit of one person.
Given that her mother lived to be 101, I think you will have Liz for quite some time yet.
Remember that Beyer was working with American tracks, so he was working with variables like
-post position (Churchill has a well-known rail bias)
-banking the turns (Keeneland was notorious for this before they installed AW)
-sealing the track after rain (this often makes it faster than a dry surface
-the composition of the dirt (Belmont is the "Big Sandy", Saratoga has more clay)
-depth (Laurel Park is deep, Santa Anita was rock hard before they got ProRide)
-track size (half-mile bullrings vs. a 12f track like Belmont)
etc. Note that Beyer’s speed figures are nowhere near as accurate for synthetic tracks. It’s very hard to use his methods at a track like Southwell. Without so many other AW tracks to compare it to, you can’t really establish a bias.
. Standing room only! The weather is generally nice, though, so it’s not bad.
The whole Louisville area is nice, don’t forget to drive out to Lexington for the Kentucky Horse Park (home of Cigar, Funny Cide et. al.), or visit some of the breeding farms (Calumet and Claiborne especially). There will be much more info available on the Derby website as it gets closer.