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More on dirt vs. synthetic (Pro-Ride at Santa Anita)from Art Wilson’s "Inside Horse Racing";
"A high-ranking Santa Anita official told me recently that Pro-Ride will almost certainly be gone by next Oak Tree meeting, replaced by a natural dirt surface."
Seems the Pro-Ride track didn’t handle the recent rains very well, though better than the other synthetic it replaced. Yes, it does sometimes rain in California, especially in the North but occasionally heavily in Southern California. This is a useful So. Califonia HR blog;
http://www.insidesocal.com/horseracing/
John Shirreffs has also expressed a dislike for synthetic tracks. You’ll just have to take my word for this Goldi – or Google your own quotes.
Also, from the second link in my post on page 3 of this topic;
"Shirreffs told DRF that no decision has been made on Zenyatta’s schedule, but indicated that they would like to return to Oaklawn Park for the Apple Blossom Handicap (gr. I) in Hot Springs, Ark., on April 3."
Goldikova-
John Shirreffs has said several times that Zenyatta is better on dirt. Here are two sources, if you want more Google is your friend.
"She (Zenyatta) won on dirt in Arkansas and she never looked better. She can run on any surface."
— John Shirreffs, trainer of Zenyattahttp://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index … nberg.html
"Shirreffs has maintained that Zenyatta is more effective on dirt than she is on synthetic."
ESPN from DRF
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/ … id=4832070
and from Jerry Moss, Zenyatta’s Owner, in the ESPN link
"I would say we’re probably going to travel a bit," Moss said. "I’d like to see her run in some dirt races."
Zenyatta’s people definitely want to go after RA on her own turf or own dirt if you prefer. Of course it’s a long way to the 2010 BCC at Churchill Downs and anything can happen between now and then. At this point, Zenyatta is a bit further along in her training than Rachel Alexandra so a meeting in the Apple Blossom at Oaklawn Apr. 3 probably depends more on RA being ready than Zenyatta. I’m sure Oaklawn would move the date or increase the purse or both to make the race happen.
JH – i thought Zenyatta doesn’t run on dirt ?
Zenyatta won the Apple Blossom G1 on dirt in 2008, her largest winning margin. Off that race, Z’s trainer says she runs better on dirt. Z’s connections said she would travel more this year which probably means dirt races back East in the US and the 2010 BCC is on dirt at Churchill Downs. Z’s people have set the BCC as a long term goal in 2010.
I would really like to see Zenyatta risk her winning streak by running in a G1 Turf race at 12f. She has the breeding for turf and if she won, as I expect she would, that would prove her on all three surfaces. At least I would very much like Zenyatta to try 1 1/2 miles on any surface. The way she finished the 1 1/4 mile BCC sure looks to me like she would be even better at 12f.
Good debate and fun for horse racing fans. As previous posts have pointed out, with RVW and Twice Over, form lines using beaten lengths can easily be manipulated. Very few horses are as consistent as Zenyatta. The RVW that tested STS was a much better horse than the worn out sore hooved horse that spit out the bit after 6f in the BCC. Likewise the Twice Over that ran close to Zenyatta was a much improved, much better horse than the one that ran up the track earlier in the season vs. STS. Mine That Bird, that almost caught RA in the Preakness, is a small horse that peaked physically early in his 3yo season for the triple crown series and in the BCC was a shadow of what he had been. Summer Bird is probably the best form line between RA and Z, but the only race SB ran against RA was the Haskell. The Haskell was run on a sloppy track and the sprinter Munnings set a very fast pace. SB ran much closer to the pace than he normally does, probably because SB’s jockey had instructions to stay close to RA and try to beat her in the stretch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKiFHrGVWNQ
Or listen to the comments by this knowledgeable fan in his trackside video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiMxoMNF … re=related
To draw a proper form line you have to go much deeper than simply comparing beaten lengths. Add in that SB in the BCC was a much more mature 3yo and had won important G1 races since the Haskell, or travelling to California might have taken something out of him and he was running on the pro-ride for the first time.
I believe that the decision to run Zenyatta in the BC Classic had a lot more to do with Zenyatta than anyone else who was running. See the Z workout video in my previous post. I believe that 10/31 workout and how Z acted afterwards was the final deciding factor that put Zenyatta in the Classic instead of the Ladies Classic.
Rachel Alexandra is a brilliant filly that can carry her speed over a distance but I also believe that at 9f or more Zenyatta will beat her on any surface. Z has run some fast 8.5f times and I would rate that distance a toss-up, anything less RA wins. As RA matures and Z ages that could change. The duel between RA and Z is really something to look forward to in 2010 and I hope they meet more than once. OTOH, RA and Z each taking different paths to the BCC and both of them continuing their unbeaten streaks into a climactic BCC showdown would also be a battle for the ages.
Too bad the gutless money-grubber Chris Tsui robbed racing fans of a similar rivalry between STS and Z. On turf I would give the edge to STS and on dirt to Z, at least until or if Z proves herself on turf.
Fist wrote;
"All you can do with Zenyatta is look and judge for yourself and up to now she has proved to be unbeatable. I’ve never seen anything like her and still can’t take in how she can consistently give horses 15 lengths of a start and treat them like selling platers."
I’m afraid it’s even worse than that. Zenyatta didn’t treat the other horses like selling platers, she treated them like Grade 1/Group 1 winners. Mere, weak, not really in her league G1 horses.
From various stories I have read it seems like Jerry Moss is leaving it up to John Shirreffs to plan Zenyatta’s 2010 Campaign, once Shirreffs decides she is ready to return to racing. Zenyatta breezed today 5f in 1:01 2/5. Once you see her working 6f in close to the 1:12 2/5 time of her last serious work before the BCC on 10/31/09 and galloping out a mile or more, then you will know she is ready to start racing again.
Fantastic news!!
Jerry Moss: "I love racing and racing needs stars…"
Too true, Mr Moss. Too true.
Now if we can just get Jerry Moss to say that to Chris Tsui
Jerry and Ann Moss announced today at Santa Anita that Zenyatta WILL race again in 2010.
Looks pretty happy in his new barn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih8T_6wILaA
Of course multiple Breeders Cup winners tends to make for a happy barn.
About two weeks ago Zenyatta worked 4f in 50 seconds. According to John Shirreffs to "take the edge off" as she was getting a bit restless just hanging about in her stall and walking around the barn. On Jan 6 Zenyatta worked 4f in 48 seconds which is more of a serious race prep workout time. That started the rumors flying. Shirreffs comment this time was that Zenyatta didn’t have her regular excercise rider Steve Willard in the irons and the big Z-girl "went a little fast because she had a different rider on her".
Today, after winning the San Pasqual Handicap (gr. II) at Santa Anita with the Moss horse Neko Bay (at juicy 5-1 odds
), Jerry Moss was interviewed in the winners circle and asked about the rumors of a Zenyatta return to the races. Jerry Moss said that he hadn’t changed his thinking about her retirement but that they were keeping Zenyatta in California for awhile longer because it was really cold in Kentucky right now. He didn’t sound really adamant about it though. Hmmmm I wonder.I don’t have a video of this but you can read about it on the BloodHorse.com site
The whip Alysheba is referring to is the ProCush whip that is catching on in America and may well be mandated soon. The ProCush whip has also been Jockey Club approved for use by National Hunt jockeys in the UK. It is a padded whip with a long "popper" at the end that relies more on the popping sound to "encourage" a horse to run than the sting of a conventional whip.
This is probably a topic for another forum, but since it has been brought up here I’ll put in my opinion. Whipping a horse to drive them towards a win is one thing but what I hate to see is a frustrated jockey whipping a fading third or fourth place finisher. Jockeys are human, very competitive, and hate to lose but If the 2nd or at least third strike doesn’t get any more out of a horse the 10th or 12th certainly won’t. There may be some moral obligation to the show bettor but not to the extant of abusing a tired horse. The best jockeys don’t usually overwhip but just use the whip to get a horse to top gear and hand ride or use the whip sparingly from there. I wouldn’t want to ban the whip because if you take that tool out of a jockeys hands there would be a lot more horse and jockey-killing accidents. Hitting a horse right or left-handed to keep it straight or waving the whip beside the horses face, for example. Of course the whip can cause problems too, causing the horse to veer in front of another but jockeys get suspended often enough for that to check that behavior.
Queally’s heavy right-handed whipping of Twice Over in the BCC has been controversial. Tom Queally did close a gap between Twice Over and Summer Bird that Zenyatta could have gone through and won more easily than she did and forcing Zenyatta to go around the back of Twice Over gave his horse the best chance to win. Twice Over was responding all the way to the wire to outfinish Summer Bird and the rest behind him so I’d have to say Queally gave his horse a really good ride. Mike Smith could have forced Zenyatta through the closing gap but wisely chose not to. Zenyatta is definitely big enough to muscle her way through a narrow closing gap, compare her size to Twice Over when she goes by, but Mike Smith forcing her through the gap could have resulted in DQ or even injury. Besides, Mike knew he had enough time and more than enough horse to get to the wire first once he got clear on the outside. By contrast, John Murtagh had RVW well positioned on the backstretch but when he shook the reins and RVW didn’t respond, he knew it wasn’t RVW’s day and didn’t hit him once, also the right thing to do.
Thanks for the welcome. You may well see Gio Ponti somewhere in Europe on his way to Dubai next year.
“We have decided to race Gio Ponti again next year having completed a stellar campaign with him in 2009, winning four Grade 1 races in a row and beating some of the best colts in the world in the tremendously historic Classic last Saturday at Santa Anita,” Castleton Lyons President Shane Ryan said. “The leading American colt Gio Ponti will eventually become a very worthy addition to the stallion ranks at Castleton Lyons, but in the meantime for all of his fans out there we are thrilled to declare our intentions for 2010 with the Dubai World Cup as an exciting early-season objective.”
thoroughbredtimes.com
11/13/09 or is that 13/11/09?
"…beating some of the best COLTS in the world in the tremendously historic Classic…", gives me a bit of a chuckle as a Zenyatta fan.
I hope Europe stands firm in it’s lasix ban. New York State refused to permit lasix for many years but finaly caved in about 1995. In addition to it’s questionable use to enhance performance, the widespread use of lasix in America means we have bred several generations of bleeders. Recently there has been some talk in the US of banning lasix in graded stakes races or at least G1 races and that would be a step in the right direction.
Stumbled across this blog looking for news stories about Zenyatta. As a huge Zenyatta fan in America, it’s great to see so much love for her in the UK and mentioning her in the same sentence as Euro superstars Zarkava and Sea the Stars shows respect as well. You also seem to have some knowledgeable HR fans who know their horses and give good pre-race analysis.
I also wish there was something like the Breeders Cup in England, Ireland or France, several G1 stakes on the same day, that would draw American horses. Didn’t really like the ESPN Euro vs US hype that tried to make the BC races into the Olympics or Ryder Cup though it might have drawn some non-racing fans into the sport. Having a Breeders Cup like event in Europe would make for a great rivalry because it’s not easy to ship that far and do well on an unfamiliar track and surface. In fact it’s incredibly difficult. Euro horses winning 6 of the races with so few starters shows that you have some great horses and excellent trainers over there. I also love the great miler Goldikova and it’s somewhat of a shame that her repeat win in blazing time from a bad post on the tight-turn, short stretch American turf course was overshadowed by Zenyatta’s win in the Classic.
I also really like Gio Ponti and not just because he completed my Exacta, lol. That’s one American turf horse that could run well in G1 races in Europe. I have been wanting Zenyatta to be more challenged in her 5yo campaign, try a distance of ground and try running on the turf in G1 open races, not just keep blowing away fillies and mares. The Mosses and John Shirreffs seemed obsessed with keeping her winning streak going and pointing her whole season towards the BC, either running her in the Ladies Classic if she wasn’t quite in top form and going in the Classic if she was. As a racing fan I would have liked to see Z ship once or twice for other big races in America, but that might have left her a bit empty for the BCC and I can’t quarrel with the result. That was one of the greatest races I have ever seen and I go back to Secretariat’s time.
Life is Sweet is also an excellent horse who will do better with more distance and her Ladies Classic win flatters Zenyatta’s earlier form and silences the critics who claimed Zenyatta was beating nothing in her gender restricted prep races leading up to the Breeders Cup. BTW, don’t you hate the name change from the Distaff to the "Ladies Classic"? Sounds like a freaking golf or bowling tournament. Another desperate attempt to lure in the non-racing fan by dumbing down the sport.
John Shirreffs, trainer of Life is Sweet and Zenyatta, is a true horseman who takes really good care of anyone in his barn, not just the superstars. His training double of the BCLC and BCC in the same year or Zenyatta’s consecutive years wins of the BCLC and BCC will be hard to duplicate as will Freddy Head’s riding and training double with Miesque and Goldikova. John Shirreffs also has a channel on YouTube where he shares a backstrech view with racing fans;
http://www.youtube.com/user/jonshfs05
This is one of my favorites, a very sleepy Life is Sweet trying to wake up in the morning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idWtmffgNzU
Another good videographer is Larry Zap
http://www.youtube.com/user/larryzapeye
This is a favorite trackside video of Zenyatta at the 2008 Clement L. Hirsch at Del Mar. The view of her coming through the tunnel leading to the track at 1:10 really shows her personality, power and eagerness to run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tiGo9ZTyOk
enjoy.
), Jerry Moss was interviewed in the winners circle and asked about the rumors of a Zenyatta return to the races. Jerry Moss said that he hadn’t changed his thinking about her retirement but that they were keeping Zenyatta in California for awhile longer because it was really cold in Kentucky right now. He didn’t sound really adamant about it though. Hmmmm I wonder.