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"Industrious", trained by Enda Bolger, has been supplemented for the Velka Pardubicka.<br>That makes ten entries from abroad this year, including Britain and France.<br>Registana finished with a knock after her last run, but should be okay to take her chance on the big day. Maskul, last years winner absolutely hacked up at Pardubice last weekend. <br>Massini and Kolorado are due to run this weekend abroad, which means thay are likely to miss the last Velka qualifier. Kolorado , though one of the best Czech horses ever, is widely believed not to like the banks. He will probabaly be aimed at another chase on the nine chase card.
If he is ever entered in the Cheltenham Gold Cup, he could be a serious threat. The Irish have already offered big money for him which has been declined.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 12:04 am on Sep. 2, 2006)
If you cannot see that foxhunting and racing go hand in hand then you are deluding yourself.
As I have stated many times I think the Daily mail is a middle class paper…they may think themselves as Conservative but there is a lot of profoundly disturbing moralistic crap in there that is hardly in the spirit of fundamental conservative ideology. Racism for one and animal rights agendas for another.
You think it is right that Blair believes that working class single mothers breed people who are a menace to society? THAT is more akin to the Daily Mail; not my thinking.
I am very very lucky to have a horse after he has retired that can entertain himself (as he did on the racecourse too!). Most get very very bored. Hunting brings them to life again and offers ex chasers a lifeline which means their life expectancy extends way way beyond the average life of a flat horse. <br>Without hunting they would be lost.<br>And I have devoted a good deal of my life to conservation issues. Hunting is regarded by 90% of condervationists as invaluable in protecting habitats.<br>It is the only discrimantory method of control of the fox polualtion, and in Nazi germany, the first and only country to ban hunting with hounds, the fox became extinct within 4 years.<br>In addition, when people talk about hunting they ususally say "terrified" fox "ripped apart alive" by hounds" cahsed by "toffs". NONE of this has any credence since the fox is not terrified (terror illicts freezing on the spot in all mammals) the fox is killed instantly so is ripped apart(as wolves would do to it in the wild) dead, and I have yet to meet any of these toffs on any of our local Hunts. I saw one at the Berkeley once though acknowledged.
I do NOT by the way hunt.
If you cannot say why you oppose hunting without relying on prejudice and emotive language(and I have YET to hear one) then you have no case. I suggest you look up the references on my profile first so you are prepeared for something which most anti hunting people aren’t though: EVIDENCE.
http://www.myspace.com/davedent
That is not a Tory view; that is a view of someone who has devoted his life to the study of animals. And not just see them as a medium on which to bet. It is also the view of a Libertarian. I will vote for whoever can guarantee me conservation at the top of the agenda and therefore hunting relegalised QUICKLY before it is too late; and a life free of state interference . This lot are going to end up stopping us picking our noses and taxing sex; and turning every piece of green land into concrete and intensive agriculture. They will also ban racing…certainly the jumps. A large proportion of Labour back benchers have already stated their opposition to it. The<br>government took a million pound bribe from AR groups…remember that.
My point in this thread is that Blair believes in social engineering. So do fascists and communists. It is dangerous. I know dozens of people from rough backgrounds who are law abiding citizens. How dare he say such crap.
You CANNOT rubbish an argument by stating that someone is a Tory; that is nonsense. It would be like me rubbishing an argument because you are LAbour. If you have a point against mine, state it rationally and logically. Otherwise you lose. <br>Unlike you I have no prejudice against a socailist persepective that I cannot argue against.
For example I think the socilaist idea for nationaisation of things like Rail, are indisputably better. But I have waited 9 years for them to mention it and had to hear it finally from David Cameron.
Yes I know Insomniac. It was parked nearly 6 metres away….far too close to the junction (NOT!)  I can’t go into detail about this as we are suing….but we were not charged with any offence.
This is an off topic forum. There are political debates. If you do not like to debate nobody is forcing you. It is called freedom of speech.<br>I welcome good debate ; but so far you anti hunting and pro Blair folk haven’t given me any.
That I agree on. I am just hoping Cameron is hiding his balls. <br>He can’t exactly go around saying he is going to sack half of unison and bring back hunting and have death sentences for shoplifters can he? <br>I wish a politician would though.
Well the wolf is out of the sheep’s clothing. People laugh at me when I say this Government is fascist. Perhaps now you will reconsider.
Bliar has stated that we can PREDICT families whose children are likey to become criminals, and act early to prevent it. He talks about these kids being "a menace to society".
To me that puts him once again in bed with Hitler. He said something very similar about the criminal underclass, and their children being "a future menace to society".<br>Yes he also banned foxhunting and smoking in public.
See I am not suggesting Blair is going to put single mothers in gas chambers. What I am trying to point out is that they BOTH believe(d) in engineering society to produce the people they want. Model citizens. They are (were) social engineers.
I will tell you a little racing anecdote to highlight what os wrong with Blair’s plan.
In the early eighties I had just finished a teacher training course. I couldn’t get a job for a couple of months, but eventually did youth work. I worked in Barton Hill in East Bristol, just after the St.Pauls riots.<br>The newly elected Labour council poured money into the black community, and the white areas started to riot too. This meant that they eventually had a load of money pumped into it too. <br>I thought the kids in Barton hill were okay. A bit raucous, but generally traditional working class values.<br>Then the hippies came. It seemed every other person…both in the black and white communities( the arteficial construct in any case of labour) was a social worker or youth worker.<br>This ccommunity didn’t have a drug problem. Marijuana<br>came with the social workers. It soon had a drug problem. The pc hippies introduced it. I beat the living crap out of one so called social worker giving a bunch of kids a joint.<br>I never got on with any of these social workers. They had bigger problems than many of the kids that they wre supposed to help. The money mostly went to their wages; that was the worst of it. <br>I once designed a booklet for the youth centre. It was illustrated with pictures based on kids in the area. There<br>was one black punk kid  wore a tutu. Richard. So I put him in. That was rejected. The rest were accepted (by a committee of about 20 people) but when the booklet was done, some of my drawings had been very crudely altered. In every picture, a character had been "blacked in" . It was ridiculous because it was so obvious.<br>Anyway, I continued my own agenda, and feel I may have helped some of the kids a bit; certainly out of some scrapes with the Police.; while the hippies got on with wasting public money on themselves and their vegetarian cafes and PC courses for lesbians wanting to <br>save the whale and stuff which were populated with people from middle class influx. See the main problem in Bristol is that it is a city full of students who want to carry on like that, living there after they leave, so seek jobs in social services, teaching etc. It is full of them; ramming their values down working class kids throats and destroying traditional working class areas at best, and eventually turning on them as they get disillusioned themselves within council bureacracies and the Benefits agency.
I put on bands, with local kids supporting, and did Art exhibitions with local kids exhibiting alongside some Art students and established artists…which I feel did a lot for their ego and I hope that some of them went on to go to Art college themselves. But really the traditional social support for kids had vanished. At the time, the emblems of one of them were emblazoned over the kids t shirts with pride with a name that the hippies had never heard of: "Lonsdale". Problem is hippies can’t stand boxing. <br>(That will be next to be banned).
But on the whole, it was all a bunch of crap designed to give middle class people jobs and interfere in the traditional way of life of the people there.
The only problems were unemployment and poor housing; they never did anything about that.
So I left, came back to Wales and taught for a bit…until I realised that was a bunch of crap too. So we eventually went back to our roots and our love of racing and horses, and my (expelled from school for being a "social menace") brother and I started painting horses. We still are.
So then about 15 years ago, I am in the ring at Chepstow. I get a shout. "Oi, Mr. Dent!!!" I looked around and didn’t recognise anyone who would call me that. Finally I see the person on Stephen little’s stand. <br>I could hardly recognise him. His name was Ash, and he was the settler.<br>He had definitely at one point been one of Blair’s "menaces to society", as both my brother and I would have been classed too.
But he was different. Gone was his psychobilly quiff and barrel jacket and DM’s. He was in a Hugo Boss suit. His hair was immaculate. <br>Stephen Little somewhere along the line had discovered this lad’s genius at figures, and given him an opportunity. <br>All the social workers put together have never given a kid what Stephen gave him. A chance.
That is what is profoundly wrong with Blair and socialism. It seeks to blame people for the society that they have cocked up themselves; with their ill conceived <br>state interference.
This latest idea of Blair’s frightens the hell out of me.<br>Perhaps he forgets the ructions caused by his kids and jack Straws kids. Only if they are the kids of single mothers on council estates are they deemed "a menace to society".
Mind you; Blair would still have us down as a social menace. We follow the Hunt, smoke, like unsavoury women, want to give a horse a decent burial; don’t EVER fit in any of their damn boxes, and PARK OUR VAN too close to a junction. Perhaps his new policies will prevent people like us and Ash ever happening again.
<br>(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 2:10 am on Sep. 1, 2006)
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(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 2:35 am on Sep. 1, 2006)
On all the policies the parties are profoundly dofferent; though it may not appear that way.<br>Foriegn policy:<br>While the Tories have a reputation of being warmongerers, they would certainly not have left out troops inadequately provided for with helicopters, ammunition and anti flak armour. That is a disgrace<br>Secondly, they would not have been up Bush’ s backside on everything. Bush even feared a Tory victory at the last election and that should tell you something. They have raised issues about the lies told about WMD’s , and stated their opposition to that as a reason for war.
The Tory policy on the NHS is for less bureacracy. Ask any professional in the service and they will tell you that that is the number one problem with it. Some of that is the fault of thatcherism and the accountability idea. However Cameron has stated that this Tory party recognise that some things, like British rail and the Health service, should not necessarily be under control of  free market policies. They admitted that rail privatisation was ill conceived. They stand for less bureacracy and money targetted at the front line of health care. Contrast that with the current service which is denying life saving cancer treatments becuase of money, yet have a vast army of bureaucrats.
The Tory Education policy will always radically differ from labour’s. What appears a benign and caring approach to Education by Labour actually masks a darker social agenda. Equality of opportunity ends up as dumbing down. Academic education under labour has become the perogative of the middle class and the spectre of VOCATIONAL education for the masses moves closer. Their policies on student grants and fees went where Thatcher feared to go. <br>Tory education policy however is truly based on the idea of equality of opportunity regardless of class. Working class kids could get to grammar school remember? The Tory policy has been the same since Disreali: that there is vast "waste" of talent among the working class and we should try to bring it out.<br>Contrast that with the fact that few working class kids manage to get to university …since new labour.
The Tories would NEVER  have introduced the scores of indirect taxes that this Government has. Neither will it conceive any more….unlike new labour who have taxed <br>everything from fags to £80 fines for drunken behaviour . This has reduced the Police to being taxmen with truncheons.
The Tories have rightly expressed grave concerns about <br>ID cards. They have conistently opposed, as have the House of Lords , policies which interfere with liberty.
European Policy? The EEC is a New Labour gravy train.<br>Again the Tories biew the EEC as an economic necessity. Labour see it as a social one, creating vast numbers of laws interfering with the individual.
If you think the Tories would EVER legalise shoplifting as this government are doing….
What the hell have this government ever done for the poor? They have given their kids a crap education. Had all the state hand outs back in indirect tax, encouraged them to have more kids as they=money, made hospitals filthy places with massive waiting lists, and raised the ninimum wage losing many full time jobs with good overtime(remember that?) and replacing them with lots of part time or casual jobs.
My Labour council spent 5 million on an Arts centre (for the middle class) while housing conditions are apalling, street crime is rife and the place stinks.
They are now preparing to attack the sick, blaming them for not being able to work, instead of their lousy health care system and absurd beureacracy. One anecdotal example. One guy I know has been off work for a year. Finally he got over his injury, and tried to take on a part time job to ease him in. It was 15 hours. Immediately he had his sick benefit cut form £160 a fortnight to £120.<br>Then his wages are taken out which leaves him about a fiver. His rent rebate is in a mess because they can’t cope with the change in circumstances and he may lose his flat. yeah right; all that f**** bureacracy and it ends up being used AGAINST the poor.
I was brought up on a council estate and all my life these middle class Labour jerks and their bureacratic lapdogs have interfered with everything in my life. Sometimes the poor just want to be left alone ro make their own way without a bunch of crap from the state. When out Dad died the Labour Council tried to evict my brother and I sayoing they do not let houses to two single men. I was 23 and my brother 17. It was a vicious fight to stay in our family home and we were eventually helped by a TORY . The house was a crumbling 70’s striucture, damp and ugly. Could never get any repair work done on it but the Council could mobilise an army if you had a horse in your garden for an hour and threaten you with all sorts of crap.  See Tories are for the individual, and against the might of the state being used against them. Labour…old and New…are for the might of the state and all its employees…and they have grown and grown and grown under New Labour until we can do NOTHING without state interference.<br>I am currently preparing to sue the Labour incompetents regarding another matter at the moment, and if you do not think that the state’s power has grown , you wouldn’t believe what has happened to us in the last few weeks. I can’t say for obvious reasons but it is frightening.
THAT is the fundamental difference between Labour and Tory.
Another anecdote which may interest you is in the thread on "Blair the Nazi"
A great loss to the whole of Racing; and my heart goes out to Dinah and the family. We Can’t afford to lose such great characters. To me it is the end of an era.
I have written a piece on my blog:
http://www.myspace.com/davedent
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 9:18 pm on Aug. 30, 2006)
There are huge differences between Cameron and Blair; Tory and New Labour.
One is for huge hovernment, controlling our every move, The other is a much more libertarian approach, with a far smaller bureaucracy.
The Tories will also relagalise Hunting. If this does not happen, National Hunt racing will decline.
And I cannot imagine a Tory Government banning stilletoes or allowing shoplifters to walk free either.
Loads more. The Conservatives are the only party who will address environmental concerns too.
On a personality level I am inclined to agree. The majority of people sadly now do not consider political questions; so the public image becomes all.
I agree on Thatcher. She was a cow and the reason why we have had to put up with 10 years of Blair.
Ark bit great!<br>totally agree sberry.
Ok Jilly?<br>ssshhhh…ot you will give Blair the idea to tax words.:o :biggrin:
Sadly you may end up right about that….the git thing I mean.<br>It is as you suggested earlier not going to be a popular electoral move to make the required changes. At least we will get hunting back though.
We used to pay the equivalent of £20 a chicken and will have to again if we do not want things like avian flu.
A return to traditional animal farming is allegedly what most people want, and is essential to conservation. That means £20 chickens but they will taste good.
And it is an absolute must with fishing. There is no cod left. That is doing a great deal more harm to artctic mammals than any seal hunt.
So it is honest, and correct to have to move away from profir and intensive processes in farming and fishing.
Okay in other things like Architecture, Cinema and pop cultue and literature we are only seeing signs of the same vision. Art though…Vettriano? he is a phenomenon. He is number one best selling Artist in the world…that is people in wolverhampton…aswell as people the world over in cities…buying that.<br>And couture eventually becomes high street.
We will see.
If you think what we are talking about is pish you will have a shock in the next ten years or so.
this thread is about New labour.<br>About how poxy they are right?
So as the conversation has gone on….and it has been very interesting and not at my direction but well argued too by Aranalde; to the point where I have had to go into other areas as he wasn’t going to let me get away with a few humorous jibes, it has touched on what is wrong with society itself.  This is why it comes back to Labour being poxy because while they criticise and legislate against rural …and international rural …affairs…they support an economic and wasteful urban society which has made supermarkets monopolise the country, and put one in three people at work for the government, allowed the police to shoot innocent people in the head, <br>and failed utterly to address global warming.
<br>Now all the racehorses in the world are the result of people in rural areas working with animals to a level that most people are not looked after.<br>Meanwhile the government  harrass, make layer upon layer of bureaucracy, and allow the AR movement to become mainstream, banning hunting and making things generally difficult. CONTRAST that with the Irish government approach to rural affairs and then maybe you can see why they finished one two and three in the gold cup and are dominating us. Ot maybe the French way of funding it and their support of their industry and horses that means there are 350 plus courses there. Not well attended you say? there will be 8000 people at Le Pertre in Brittany in a village of 300 this weekend.
Did you see the British jockeys falling all over the place in the national? Maybe they need a spot of hunting in Ireland eh?:o :biggrin: <br>You will not find many trainers jockeys or national hunt owners who do not agree with the bulk of what I am saying by the way.
So THAT is how poxy Labour are.<br>Bad for the countryside.<br>Bad for horseracing.<br>Bad for the economy.<br>Bad for its support of a movement which the US has down on the terrorist watch list (the AR groups)<br>Bad for its parochial moral fascism and racism
And bad for horses. Very bad.
<br>ps of you find something a bore you are not obliged to read or comment. <br>I would think that my experience of painting horses and racing all over the world, being behind the scenes at all sorts of levels, and some of the conclusions I have reached by talking to people , including many native peoples, would be of interest in a racing forum.
Racing is first and foremost about horses and the cultures that produce them.
If you do not understand why it is not relevant to be talking about arctic peoples maybe you should ask the Irish why they have breeding programmes in Mongolia and Siberia. Why they are sending horses to Pardubice.<br>Why Cheltenham are involved in the first international Steeplechasing conventions . Why the French have made a festival of international steeplechasing at Auteuil in November, and why the Sami are running reindeer at St. Moritz.<br>Why Cheltenham are staging harness and dog racing at their meetings, why racecourses have the Hunt at them, and countryside days etc.
Because we must unite are strangely different cultures against the onslaught of urban prejudice led by government like Blair’s is just one reason.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 1:25 am on Aug. 25, 2006)
I will let you know when Green Green desert does his first normal dressage competition next year.
I have an awful feeling he will decide it is classical battle dressage.:o
Still; it will be more fun than half the racing at Wolverhampton!!:biggrin:
Actually I quite enjoy it there….with the floddlights and all.And I shouldn’t really slag Kempton without seeing it. <br>However I think they would’ve been better off making a cross country steeplechase course.
I can’t wait for someone to have the sense to do a floodlight jumps course.
oh yeah<br>and that Dirty harry was criticsed by petit bourgois critcs as being "fascist" when in fact it was the opposite.<br>the writer quoted Clint as saying
"Personnel? That’s for ASSHOLES!"
Maybe that is why those in on "the Swindle" like new labour don’t like him either.
It was governments and supermarkets and the EEC which pushed farmers into that.
It is a joke that they are now trying to cover their asses by pretending to offer them money to preserve hedgerows.
Hedgerpws are for jumps out hunting. That is what they are for and they shouldn’t need protecting in traditional<br>farming practice.
That is my point. I am ANTI intensive farming.
By the way you should taste Mr Barber’s (seemore business) cheese. It is fabulous. Look for the little writing on the cheese in Sainsbury’s that says "produced on the Barber’s family farm"
let farmers farm and let them get a fair price for their superb animal husbandry. You will taste the difference.<br>And it will stop ADD in kids immediately. No steroids. but a chicken should cost £20/£25. Let the farmer charge for that. it is NOT farmers who are being subsidised by the EEC…it is CONSUMERS and the EEC brueacracy itself.
Let  us get rid if battery farms and go back to how we keep chickens in the countryside. We keep them mostly cos we like having them around (I keep saying we but i live in the middle of a town centre…but I see how it s done cos of the horses) and because they lay the odd superb eggs. But we had three of our own (until the fox got them) and they cost about £1 a week to keep. So how the hell can you buy ant sort of decent chicken for less than £20. I wouldn’t touch it because that means awful welfare and steroids and chemicals. <br>Why on earth did the government ban mink farming; one of the highest animla wefare standards, and allow battery farms to continue? Nothing to do with animla welfare is it? No you cannot keep mink cramped in a box they will cannibalise, wreck each others fur etc as will any stress. So WHY did Labour, on a TERRIFYING abuse of their power on totally unconstitutional grounds ban mink farming? They did it on grounds of PUBLIC MORALITY. That is such scary fascist talk. Nobody cared as it only affected about 100 people. But imagine what eles they can do on such grounds. We can’t do s**t like that in Britain; it is outrageous and again went unchallenged by our USELESS press.
do you really prefer Mand S selling big pants to the lovely corset and and susssies that they used to?:o :biggrin: <br>Yes I wrote a lot of that humorously; but the rise of Victoria’s Secret as a fashion house and their tremedous commercial success at giving women beautiful and expensive lingerie bears yestimony to waht I am talking about. Tap them in your search engine or do a survey of any woman in your street under 30. That is why it is called the NEW traditionalism. It is young people that are embracing couture, stockings, fogeyish clothes etc etc.<br>Yes it is at the races and clubs and things at the moment<br>that it manifests itself but you watch…I bet Mand S do a covert coat for men next year and do corsets and suspenders at Christmas again.
Quality and tradition and heritage is coming back across the board in everything from food to clothes to Art.
Hitler was a crap artist. That is because he was petit bourgois!:biggrin: :o
I am not advocting we round up townies and put them in gas chambers; just that they stop criticsing the management of land and use of animals, and our natural produce and habitat conservation. Every rural culture is under attack the world over. Thankfully conservationists are now saying WHOAW!
They came up with the phrase and I think the avant garde are saying yes! They are correct! let us go back to supporting the old traditions! And it is they that will see that we go with it in the long run… the arbiters of style, Art, and indeed in the end…commerce.
You can male a lot of money if you are a supermarket and say "taste the difference. this is REAL chicken. It is £20 …but it is worth it"
The same will happen in furnishings (look at Versace go in that field!), Architecture, literature,etc.  Art and couture, music (Inuit throat singing was at Glastonbury last year and there is a huge resurgence in country music) it is already happening.
The Times2 today had two pages I was looking at ipposite each other.<br>One was a rave review of the opra "Mazeppa" in Edinburgh. The second was a re ecaluation of the contriburion of "Dirty Harry" to our culture and how important it was….the rugged individual, traditional values, purpose and a tweed jacket (really!)
Not a Tracey Emin or a Mullholland Drive in sight.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 11:32 pm on Aug. 24, 2006)
Kladruby stud is the worlds oldest operating stud and has survived world wars and countless invasions.<br>the vienna riding school’s Lipizzaners are hugely popular. Just because you do not know it doesn’y mean it is not so. We cannot wager on it, but I bet you ask any little girl her favourite horse and she will say lipizzaner.
The Spanish riding school of Vienna are coming to Britain this year and they will pack out Wembley and the NEC. There will be far more working class people from Wolverhampton there than ever attend the races there.
http://www.thesapnishridingschool.com
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul1998 … 07318.html
http://www.lgt.com/groip/en/engagement/ … chule.html
The show they do is classical battle dressge.
Courbettes, mezzaires, caprioles.<br>Airs above the ground. They are designed to kill infantry in battle.
The petit bourgois produce great artists?<br>they should all the money on education invested in them, but they do not.
Most great artists come from the aristocratic or the working classes. Not all agreed; but far more than one should expect.
It is a bit tough on people that they ARE going to have to pay more for their food and go back to local production but it is vital or we will destroy ourselves.
It doesn’y matter a damn that the worling classes do not vare about point to pointing…but you shoul, come to a welsh point to see that is wrong anyway….it is a socail manifeststion of rural culture.
Most people may live in towns and cities and THAT is where they should stay. Nobody wants them wandering into a field where Green Green Desert is and having their faces ripped off.
Where did I say that we had to get them back on the land?
Yes I did exagerate your point about working class people (and I am one) …apologies.<br>However your point about the single mother is one thing; I can empathise with that. I cannot empathise with the obesity in many families. That is a symptom of western greed. Or all the out of town shopping centres that are bursting at the seams on a sunday consuming vast amounts of non reneable resources. <br>It will have to stop. They key is in the words "non renewable". They are going to run out. And we are running out of room of where to bury the wasteful results of such a fadish and disposable culture.<br>On the food thing…<br>most people live in cities and towms as you say. But most LAND is devoted to animlas and countryside. that is where the prejudice lies. Howver, urban people HVAE to start listening to rural people be they British  farmers and hunting folk, Sami, Inuit, Cree , Evenk or Yakut. We ahave to be able to continue with Traditional practice and resources that are infinitely renewable and the hunting cultures that prtect habitat from intensive use and increasing urbanisation.<br>That is of course, if urban people are truly interested in not only saving animals but also the planet.
Yes it may be a vote loser now. Wait and see what Cameron’s eco team come up with. They will have to take this on board, and sell it to the public. That is their problem not mine.<br>Mine is to tell it how it is. As an artist that is my social function. <br>It is the International year of the Arctic next year. Then Blair will get a mouthful of the same from every Arctic peoples. Our greed is destroying them and the habitats of the North, and they are NOT amused that they have to put up with creeps lkike Paul McCartney telling them they shouldn’t be selling seal fur.
<br> And oh yes….Stalin Lenin Hitler etc were all petit bourgeois. <br>Everyone who worked for them was petit bourgeois in positions of power. They killed the brownshirts and the working class kids that ran soviet councils remember?<br>Then they murdered the aristicarcy and ruthlessly culled the Prussian old guard influence in the Wermacht which is why they inevitably lost the war. All these were petit bourgois revolutions.
Evidence? What of? I said my theory was just a theory; I qualified that I wasn’t making it up that there are lots of coincidences and if tou check out the Tides foundation on the activistcash website you will see that there is some alarming and sinister pointers.<br>I have given you supportibe links on many conservation ideas and initiatives, and shown you people who have reverted or keep their traditional ways. White native people may come as a surprise to many. I can list over 200 tribes just in the Arctic who cover lands that are teeming with wildlife . These people may not be important to British urban dwellers; but it is essential to all our survival that they are supported.That is the way they would like it to stay and do not want us to exploit it now we have exhausted other areas. Urban western civilisation has no right to criticise them.
<br>
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 10:27 pm on Aug. 24, 2006)
Great bit of mad poetry there!
Now. I have already told Sarah Hobbs this. We have done the Velka and White turf and Merano. Now we have to be looking further afield for our frontiers. We are maybe looking at the race on the Asiatic steppes, or ebven the endurance race with the 17hands prehistoric yakut horses in Siberia. But Sarah Hobbs was utterly captivated by the Reindeer racing at St.Moritz so that may have to be first stop next year. grab a load of this:
http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/supergal/s … 007-01.htm<br>http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/gallery2/arctic/peoples/sami/kk2773-00.htm
I may ask Philip if he wants to train a reindeer for us so we can go with a runner!
There is quite a lot about the Sami way of life on the thread about "Poxy Labour" ….because their policies threaten these peoples and ones like them as much as British rural people and our hunting. Worth your while looking in the lounge I promise you.
There are some ideas of common ground here.
Lets work on those.<br>Firstly your last point, and then I will tell you why your assertions that its is okay for working class people to buy cheap is NOT acceptable ,  and  that fur and couture<br>are important.<br>Supermarkets have had a great deal of influence on governments of both shades.<br>However, the New Labour model is a very centralised, bureaucratically controlled one which has among other things seen a dreadful change in the way they have handled food production. They have a policy of giving these companies whatever they want because they provide "real jobs". They do not like the small shopkeeper and are completely onstructive to such peopel. Thus supermarkets often get massive rate free periods, or pay no rates at all. But it goes further. The giants compete with eack other to the extent where they sell other things…cheap clothing, lighting, electrical goods,bedding,toys, stationery…even art materials. All crap but cheap. In an endeavour to provide cheaper and cheaper goods including food to secure a big slice of the market they need to import as much as poss from cheap sources in the far east. So the artists canvas they sell is NOT real; the £ 2 t shirt is from China and is rubbish, and the cheap trainers fall apart. Meanwhile the cirner shop, toy shops, art material shops, boutiques selling quality clothes in the high street,and all sorts of other traditional little businesses have gone under. Just coincidence is it in what I am about to tell you that Labour’s biggest donations have come from the animal rights movement and a Supermarket giant?
But the FOOD policy actually encourages things like unseasonal veg, expolitation of the third world cheap production and factory farming at expense of habitat.<br>Then to compete our farming goes factory, our abbatoirs under central government control  become centralised, and more and more land is taken form traditional farming for intensive crops and urban development.<br>If you think this is not realted to foxhunting I would raise an eyebrow at that naivity. The Global supermarkets and the Govvernment want to crush british animal farming. It uses land that could be more profitably useed for something else. But banning hunting was an integral part of that because most farming people could adapt by changing to horse dependence. Livery yards grew. Again that helped conserve the countryside. So horse culture had to be crushed aswell. So it is a covert policy to crush the countryside, and use the third world to provide food. Cheap chickens, plantation crops, and all sorts of non indigenous crops from Africa, encouraged by either utter naivity or cynical management, the Fair Trade movement.<br>All to boost the profits of global industry.<br>Doubt me? Ask yourself what Heinz endowments are involved in the Tides foundation and all the dodgy AR and eco movements for? Destroying animal dependant economies is my theory.
http://www.activistcash.com . Look it up for yourself. The Tides Foundation. Allegedly standing for "sustainible development" by which they mean nicking land off traditional animal use to exploit to make their profits last another 100 years. Global industry in league with animal rights. It’s a range war. The vast majority of the planet is given over to use by animal dependent economies, so they have to be ruthlessly crushed by having a policy of "ethical treatment" which means exterminating the lot of them.
Most supermarket foods, cosmetics etc now contain palm oil. That is the biggest threat to apes, leopards etc<br>ever. It has been identified by Friends of The Earth as such. And the WWF .And reluctantly now, greenpeace.
The same goes for all our cheap crappy furniture and the wasteful consumption of it. Remember when you used to have your Nan’s barley twist table? Ah well see that is old fashioned now so chuck it out and buy a new one from the many out of town shopping centres, and do the same three years later when it falls to bits, and <br>then buy another. Well all that cuts down forests. So again we have to go back to using traditional furnirure that last and is beautifully crafted instead of the trendy wasteful ever changing fad culture we have at the moment.
The Sami have three products. Reindeer skin , fish and  fox etc furs.<br>They are the people of those forests.<br>http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/supergal/sjm/sjm00/sjm0004-21.htm<br>http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/supergal/sjm/sjm00/sjm0008-01.htm<br>http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/gallery2/arctic/peoples/sami/kk0037-10.htm<br>http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/supergal/sjm/sjm00/sjm0006-13.htm
These people and peoples all over the world and their animal dependance is all that stands between salvation and oblivion for the planet.<br>The option for income of all of them is simple…continue with their lives as normal…or adapt to what global indutry wants from them…oil, trees, gas, etc in the horth and out of season broccoli, coffee and palm oil in Africa, gm soy in Argentina etc. Sod all that we have to support their traditional use.<br>Now when you have a government and a media controlled by simplistic analysis for mass consumption, bribed by an animal rights movement that has arisen purely out of coincidence with the fact global industry wants these other resources…it is going to be an uphill battle to fight. But fought it must be, and now real conservationists are taking up the cause, but it is a diffeicult consept for the average person who likes animals to grasp that you can conserve them by killing them sustainably, as we have always done until now when we have "alternatives".
This is a bit complex but shows you how conservationists are coming to this conclusion;<br>http://www.grida.no/ecora/pdfb/rfrs/rfrsakh0202.doc
it is a conservationist report which advocates support of sustainable animal resources as the best way to presve habitat. It is exactly the same as foxhunting in the UK.
If we get rid of tradtional animal dependant economies <br>then we destroy animlas for good. It is that simple. <br>That is why 400 designers have used fur in their collections this year, and other fabrics like tweed silk and wool are back in fashion at the expense of polyester and vinyl.
So fur is a big issue. And the hysterical politics of envy and grossly exagerated animal welfare arguments must stop. The Cree have an incredible conservation record in their lands and have single handedly saved  beaver becuase they need them to sell for fur (and eat) . They have continually resisted logging on their lands but lost 20% in the last few years. I would suggest this is a direct result of the anti fur movement. Now we have Anne Widdecombe wanting to break a years old treaty to supply a small number of bearskins to the Guards and NOBODY in the media or Parliament is questioning the ethics of that. That is a f*****g outrage when they conserve the firests so there are still bear there in the first place. A culture which doesn’t have any bears left because of urbanisation wanting to criticise those that preserve their habitat but kill them now and again.
Now where does the New Traditionalism come in?
Well, as I said it is not a few courure houses it is 400 of them. Scumbags like Ralph Lauren have broken ranks to climb oon the media whore bandwagon of PETA’s publicity machine. But most stay. Karl Lagerfield is admant to protect fur; and he is one of the biggest influenses in fashion. Dior Gucci and Chanel are backbones too. Fur is back to stay and it has to be.
In popular terms there are media stars who endorse it under tremebdous pressure from PETA. <br>But perhaps one of the most invredible demonstrations of this was this year at the Eurovision song contest.
Lordi drew loads of complaints from ignorant half wits by taking the stage in rendeer fur cloaks. they are finnish. I do not know for sure, but I think this may have been a show of solidarity with the Sami. New Traditionalism at work .
Sorry to go on. Can you imagine the bollicking I give people who make snide comments in the supermarket or the furniture stores on the odd time we go for having a go at my girlfriend for wearing fur? She has a sheared beaver made from Cree pelts. These animals cannot be farmed and are eaten. And they stand there in trainers and polyester cagoules and acrylic jumpers made from oil with a flat pack of flooring made from half the Brazilian rainforest and a trolley full of palm oil and £2 frozen chickens reared horrendously. It leaves them open mouthed.<br>Never get it at the National Hunt races though …no problem there with fur and a cultural empathy with those who produce it. Look at the yakut and navajo  fox hats on the women. They are often wearing those as a statement. Again the New Traditionalism in action.
Go to Cheltenham countryside day and see the sea of tyweed and fur around the winners enclosure; something of a "quaintly" amusing sight for many urban <br>vistors.<br>Well watch out this year; you may get red paint chucked on your polyester grey Burton’s suit.
And the masses that flock to supermatkeys must change their ways. my guess is that supermatkets will adapt to the New traditionalism. They already are. Marks and Spencers made a TV ad proclaiming the woners of fresg local British strawberries and did a promotion for them with wine or something. When I went there, there were huge piles of strawberries ….but they were produce of the USA. I threw them about looking for a British pack without sccess and then had a frilly on them tere and then.
How much did it cost…in terms of money and in terms of <br>damage to the environment through fuel, to get them to every MadS in the UK?<br>Now I do not mind American strawberries as such, but let’s pay the true price for them eh?<br>Likewise, supermarkets are going to HAVE to come under pressure over the sly way they buy fish from fleets who are not obeying the conservation restrictions.<br>Ther is NO NEED for the fishing indutries in the UK and cabada and Norway etc to suffer. If supply is low, the price should rise…dramatically. There should be a tax on cod and that money go straight to the fishermen . Their communities…and the cod…should not have to suffer because of unethical competitive practices. See I ain’t all Tory…you won’t see that on the Daily Mail.
the consumer should HAVe, and will have, to pay the REAL price of food production. We CANNOT justify our levels of obesity…caused by consumption of meat, fish chicken etc three times a day and palm oil and sugar destroying habitats, and sit on our ass telling the Inuit they are cruel for killing seal. We should be paying £10 for a decent piece of cod. We should be paying £20 for a chicken. We should be paying massive money for out of season veg, and we should BAN all palm oil from new plantations. These would really help animal welfare.
And reflect the true price of our greed in the price at the tills will stop habitat erosion. <br>What will happen? Well MAYBE we will have to just have a joint or a chicken on a sunday and RIGHTFULLY be thankful for it. Rest of the week we will have to make do with black pudding and a bit of liver like we used to. Eat fish on friday.<br>Have jam on toast the rest of the week. That we make ourselves from fruit we grow in the garden or allotment  providing food for caterpillars and hedgehogs too.
If you don’t hear from me much in the future you know the supermarkets have asked Blair to have MI6 bump me off!
It is a lie to suggest tax on 4x4s is going to have any impact on the damge we are doing to the planet. that is just another excuse to hit the rural people who need them. It will be counter productive anyhow. Instead of a 4×4 and a trailer, people will have to use a horsebox. Far more damaging in terms of fuel consumption.
This Government are fully compliant in helping destroy the planet. They have hastened it. All the talk is just about tax raising revenue for their empty coffers. <br>Cameron at least has a working team discussing these issues with people like Zac Goldsmith of greenpeace …who would bitterly diasgree with me on many issues but hey, I haven’t made my fortune by f***** the planet like his family have. I hope he has some New traditionalist conservationists on there too.
I must thank you fir stucking with this Armande and having a go at debunking it.<br>There is one more thing. The resurgence of interest in classical battle dressage. <br>Heard of the Vienna Riding school? Kladruby Stud? You may think it  strange nowadays that General Patton fought his way to those places to liberate the horses. <br>That is how important they once were. They are again…they fire the public imagination. No, people are not hurrying to their classical battle dressage classes; but they are packing out shows that visit to see the mighty Lipizzaners kick ass with those moves. That is what it is. A lot more public interest in that than at the all weather racing at Kempton. If they put on a Lippizaner demo they may get a crowd.
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