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You have to remember that NONE of our steeplechasers…and we have sent good ones…have won a race there since Its a Snip . Remember horses like Djeddah and Irish Stamp and Paddy’s Return and Supreme Charm and Superior Finish didn’t do any good there. Risk of Thunder, 7 times winner of the La Touche could only manage 2nd under an inspired ride from Ken Whelan.
Their horses are new coming to the end of their season. They have had a hard campaign. Worth remembering Peruan and Marketplace beat all the British horses in the very first sporting index after a very hard Velka.
You understimate the quality of Czech hoses at your peril. Remember that Galileo was pretty moderate in the Czech Republic but he hacked up at Cheltenham Festival.
The problem with the pillar or the festival is that the ground is frozen in the Czech republic from December to March….so it would be difficult to prepare them.
But Kolorado…if the owners wanted it…would certainly not be out of his depth in the Cheltenham gold Cup and I think Edward Gillespie will try to encourage the connections  to participate.
The Sporting Index is an excellent race and of excepional quality .Most conventional chasers would be unable to tackle it…and certainly unable to tackle the velka. <br>The Velka is the ultimate test of a horse on every type of ground , and at a variety of pace. It requires a hse to be highly intelligent, veratile, adpatable and quick, at the same time to have incerduible stamina. Kolorado would be no good at it…..but unquestionably has the credentials for a serious Gold Cup challenger. Massini too (6th in the French grand Steeplechase) would be a serious contender.
If Kolorado was entered in the Gold Cup and he was prepared here …he would beat any British horse in my opinion at the moment. He is fast, agile, dynamic and has bags of stamina. But the Irish chasers I don’t know. they have some pretty good ones at present.  But when Kolraod can go around winning half a million pinds a year in Europe against their best what would motivate them to come to Cheltenham in March for a tough race out of their season?
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 1:08 am on Oct. 2, 2006)<br>
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 4:52 am on Oct. 2, 2006)
Sadly none of the 12 entries from the UK Ireland etc run in this year’s velka. Robin Healey from "Paddock Revue"<br>in Prague reports:
No foreign runners in the Velka Pardubicka<br>The runners and riders for the 115th Ceska Pojistovna Velka Pardubicka were announced on October 27th. None of the 12 foreign entries was declared to run. Other non-runners include Registana and Red Dancer, as already announced, and also Retriever, who finished 2nd in the race in 2004. The 17 entries are headed by Maskul and Decent Fellow, 1st and 2nd in the 2005 race, and Hastaven, who won the August qualifying race in some style. Other horses that will be fancied include Iraklion, winner of the May qualifying race, and Ner, 2nd in the June qualifying race, behind Decent Fellow. The winner should come from among these five, as none of the others has achieved much.
<br>Riders in the Velka Pardubicka<br>Dirk Fuhrmann will ride Maskul, as he did in last year’s race. Trainer Frantisek Holcak also brings in a foreign jockey, John Paul Johnson, for his other runner, Juniusz. As expected, Josef Vana’s stable jockey Josef Bartos will ride Decent Fellow. The other horses trained by Josef Van’a will be ridden by Tomas Hurt (Ner) and Josef Van’a snr (Juventus). Josef Van’a is nowadays almost retired, having ridden only 8 races so far this season, winning two of them. Wrbna Racing often bring in a foreign jockey, but Hastaven, who has an excellent chance, will be ridden as usual by stable jockey Jan Faltejsek. Italian- based Czech jockey Jiri Kamenicek rides Iraklion, winner of the May qualifying race. Radek Havelka, stable jockey for the Holcaks, rides Cziesymir. Intrepid trainers Martina Ruzickova and Pavel Slozil will be riding Chailand and Polarnik, respectively. Two less known names are Martin Liska, who will ride Icare du Renom and amateur rider Pavel Horcicka, who will be on Harry the Beaver. Matrtin Liska has ridden 11 winners in 14 seasons, three of them this year. Pavel Horcicka has had just two winners in the 13 seasons. Neither is likely to improve his record in this year’s Velka Pardubicka. The other jockeys are Vaclav Luka (Glogloglo), Michal Kohl (Brambusch), Dusan Andres (Vajgara, who was surprisingly supplemented after the September qualifying race), Marek Stromsky (Eliska Premyslovna) and Jaroslav Myska (Klip).
<br>Watering at Pardubice <br>Pardubice has enjoyed a long period of warm, sunny weather that has left the ground firm. As the forecast is for continued dry weather, the Pardubice course has been watered continuously since about September 20th, and this will continue until the race day, October 8th. We are assured that the going for the Velka Pardubicka will not be rock hard, but some real rainfall would be a welcome event.
<br>Ceska pojistovna, sponsor of the Velka Pardubicka<br>Ceska pojistovna, the Pardubice-based insurance company, is sponsoring races at Pardubice for the 13th year. The total prizemoney for this year’s race is 4 500 000 crowns, the same as last year, and the equal-highest prize ever for a horse race in the Czech Republic.
<br>Best turned out horse<br>Diane Hill is sponsoring the Best Turned Out Horse in each race at the Velka Pardubicka meeting for the 10th successive year. Since Diane and John Smith, who sadly died two years ago, started sponsoring BTO, there has been a big improvement in the appearance and also the performance of Czech racehorses.<br> <br>Robin<br>
So are we agreed on the whole then that pacemakers are okay?
Because I would hate for this to be clouding the jockey club’s head….they already seem to think like punters that horses are machines.
Horses are herd animlas and they follow leaders. That is <br>essentially the issue and therefore, if we are consideruing HORSES and their psychology/welfare at all in this we should recognise it as a leigitimate tactic.
if the pavemaker then wins (which is as far as I can see the only problem) as he sometimes does then he cannot be accused of being a non trier.
What NEXT?
Do you want horses running in lanes? Stalls for jumps?<br>Every horse to have a ninimum of 5 stroles of the whip to ensure he is trying but no more than six as its cruel?
Maybe horses to be ridden by electronic monkeys so no cheating can happen?
Every horse to be ridden as fast as poss from the word go?
A pacemaker is a legitimate tactic becuse it is about herd<br>dynamics.
Yes sometimes they get in the way. And that is another variable of herd dynamics that makes racing so fascinating and difficult to predict.
Personally I like it when you see horses biting at each other for the lead, jossling each other etc. At the end of the day it is about who is good enough to lead and the best will always try to get through.
Anyobody here can go out, but a horses for a grand, get 10 mates together and buy a horse. That makes everyone a somebody here if they so choose.
And even if you don’t want to be a player in that way, sometimes an armchair punter can have insights which even the expert professional may notconsider. So we are all somebodies here. Also there are a few people who work in yards/ride out and they are most definitely "somebodies" in my book, as they risk their lives without the possibility of glory as the jocks get.
Take your point though….but the way the question is phrased may make anyone who answers "somebody" an egoist!!!
I don’t think anyone is a nobody yet worry that everyone who has voted thinks they are.
Apart form the person calling himself david johnson…who may or may not be….and if he is he obviously thinks everyone here is worthy of respect….there may be a few "big players" at least in the wings.
BUT if I did not think this was an important forum re all the people here must care about racing….then why would anyone bother posting? that is why I put a lot in…even though I may bore some of you….and potentially alienate some "somebodies" from what I do.
We are all someone here.<br>All.
That is what makes racing so great….and why I am not on the forum of a football team where the "working mans" sport…is actually only about elite corporatism.
There are no "nobodys" in racing.
Brrrrhhhhhgkkkkkhhhhhhh!!!!!
Mildred Peierce is a woman at her best. Powerful; strong, honest,true, beautiful, glamorous and self sacrificing an moments of importance.
Whatever happened to…..is what may happen to them ….her and Bette Davis.
Joan played a blinder but Bette …you have to ask if what was on screen was the reversal of what was alleged about their characters in real life.
Both great movies though acknowledged.
You have to understand that horses are HERD animlas.
And the problem is that some are used to seeing their immediate friends, and running in a certain way in training etc. <br>If you then suddennly have a different kind of pace, the horse will not run well. You could therefore say that a horse was not trying its best because the trainer hadn’t ensured that a horse that need a friend to make the pace to be entered.
I have seen a number of such pacemakers win races. Even the training races in France for young yockeys where a top jockey ‘s on a pacemaker.
So to say they are not trying is silly…it is just usually they will not stay, and just ensure a good gallop so that the main horse will follow at a good pace…instead of letting the race wide open for something with a turn of foot to come off a muddling pace.
So pacemakers must be allowed. It is up to the punter to work out whether by some fluke they could stay….look for the odd one with (d) next to it…he may be worth an e/w. An dpersonally I really get a kick out of backing them in those circumstances.
Often it is the press that interpret a horse as a pacemanker rather than a horse that is also trying in its own right. Godolphin in partcular hace had a number of such winners like that.
It was assumed tat grren Green Desrt was a pacemaker for Call Equiname in the queen mpther hence his odds of 100/1. But most people knew he was ther in hic own right. yes…sometimes trainers like Pipe and Nicholls run a "herd" in a race. It is up to the punter….and do not be misled by press who do not uderstand herd psychology<br>to work out the likely one to assert. I think such things probide fascinating possibilities.
I remember Pipe running a few horses in the Coral cup I think it was. Two of his outsiders were Big Strand, and Allegation. The two jockeys were arguing who was likely to come out on top. The betting public and press ignored what they saw as horses with little chance. But the plan was I assume for the horse to compete against each other and raise their game. It worked. I had the forecast. Nothing crooked. Just ignorance of horse…and jockey…rivalry playing a big factor. It didn’t mean Pipe’s other horses were not trying…just that one would be looking to catch the other at the end, and with a bit of luck it would work.
I see such things on the gallops every day…that rwo partcular horsres bounce off each other. It is a normal herd dynamic. You often see Nicholls and Pipe horses looking around for each other…either for camaraderie or rivalry.
A pacemaker is used on the gallops this way and a horse gets used to pacing himself perfectly and passing the lead horse at the right moment.
In a race …they don’t always follow…so sometimes the pacemaker can win.
It is fascinating…leave it be.
(Edited by GreenGreenDesert at 6:16 pm on Sep. 25, 2006)
our horse Jermak was third today and he will therefore be entered for Pardubice for the 3 year old hurdle the day before the Velka.
We are delighted. He was only beaten two lengths and next year he will hopefully make a nice young cc chaser.
How will he do at Pardubice? None of us has any idea…you had best ask him!
sorry I meant astrophysics
My computer can’t cope with the spell checker…it is a very old computer; and I type fast so you must forgive me my odd spelling error.
Someone who once came to dinner with us in Paris aftrer racing at Deauville said the same.<br>In a single day they met Pawnee, Texan cowboys, Czechs, Russians, Germans, Malayans, Irish, Japanese, Argentinians and Chileans. <br>The horse world is a worldwide village.
Please remember that gambling is a tiny part of it. First and foremost it is about horses, and you can learn so much from other cultures. Particularly where horse psychology is concerned.
Someone else described a dinner in the Czech republic we held as being like the bar in Star Wars.
I enjoy immensely learning from people of different ways of life, and yes it is interesting.
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Please explain the use of the term Cricket in conjunction with the phenomena known as Geoff Boycott.:biggrin:
In seriousness though I used the yorkie bar reference and stereotype to see how many people would bite.
This thread is demontrating racial preconceptions. No surprise to see moslems topping the list, and it is profoundly untrue. The whole racing community where we live eat regularly at a friend sBangladeshi retsurant,. The lads come racing, and we all have the sharpest banter and they have a terrific sesne of humour and people cannoy wait to get there aftrer racing…trainers, owners, jockeys, p2p people. Though the food is good we go because theses lads are an great comics. Every moslem …evem the most devour…have a great sense of humour and it is jsut different,….hard to actually grasp for people not used to it. They sometimes see our humour as spiteful, lowest common denominator and juvenile.
One lad, Johnny Welsh, would be a great stand up comedian. He has just opened his own restaurant. He is very devout moslem. He will chastise anyone…usually with a needle sharp wit… for showing disrespect for women, and women therefore love him.
One of his stories which has everyone in hysterics (to the point where you have to ask tourself is he actually quite mad) concerns his alleged cpature by aliens in the middle of the afternoon in maindee in newport. he insists the story is true. The part that makes me laugh most is when he says that the spacecraft now are not like they were in old films and their technology has developed far beyond that and they obviously are using the same designers as IKEA.
One of the most popular and intelligent tv comdey series of late was The Kumars at number 42 and its predecessor. Mainstream moslem comedy….and hilariouys…popular with all sections of society.
So we suddenly turn round and beleive moslrms have no semse of humout vecasue some danisg idiot chose to depeict Allak looking eveil armed with weapons? That is not funny, is crass, and was intended to cause offence.
Wonder how Yorkshire church people would feel about a cartoon depicting Geoff Boycoott with a crucifix up his ass or something? I can’t think of an example better because i haven’y got that spiteful vibe in me. I detest it when I see it. I never liked it when I was a kid and other kids used to laugh at someone when they fell and broke their ankle. Laughing at other peoples expense …especially when at the expense of their God…the same God as ours…is not funny.
I agree that some elements go OTT in their reaction….but actually while I do not feel anything for that kind of violent knee jerk reaction which is just as intolerant of our culture of freedom of expression, I do feel that the cartoon was insensitive, and feel more for those millions of moslems who said nothing but were deeply hurt and caused to worry about how they are percieved by the west .
I didn’t see Sheikh Mohammed burning Danish flags, but he would have been just as insulted by it. And you know he has a good sense of humour…he must have to put up with the antics of that upstart Italian as a jockey.:biggrin:
And so yes…normally I would never insult yorkshire people …and certainly wouldn’t now with really harsh humour based on their grumpy, tight, chauvenistic, uncouth percepetions of which they are sometime seen….usually based on the likes of Harvey Smith and John Prescott. Why? because I know that is not true….and all cultures have such characters. Some of my best friends are yorkie bars:biggrin:
One icident at deauvlle racecourse I can tel you about. The hat man and I and a sculptor were setting up our stands. French people do not go to the races until ten minutes before the first. They will be in restaurants before that. british people are the only people you see at deauville before that…sometimes wandering around wondering why the bars aren’t open at 11 a.m.
The hat man Graham said…here come some more brits. Hurry up Dave, get that last picture hung they are making a bee line for your tenet. By then I could hear they were from Yorkshire, and quite loud. So I said to Graham…"don’t be daft….the main bloke is from Yorkshire. He will come into into the stand, walk up to the biggest oil and say "HOW bloody much? and moan openly about the french being a rip off because he will assume us french and not be able to follow what they are saying."
He did exactly that and Lucien and Graham were in hysterics. Sometimes people do live up to their stereotypes sadly. HOWEVER….to prejudge all yorskshire people with this idea would be wrong.
Many of my best friends reall are yorkshore folk….and they are all different and individual and apart from the accent you wouldn’t be able to apply any of the other negative things to them.
And I would never use words or behaviour ….normally… that they told me they found insulting.
Snide comments are no substitute for thorough intelligent debate. <br>On the kids thing what I am saying is you get an honest answer SOMETIMES. They are less corrupted by what they are supposed to say…therefore sometimes more in tune with our natural and true state.
I did not say we should base our society on what kids think. <br>Kids get excited by fishing because often it is their first experience of what we are naturally supposed to do. They also have a pure insight into why their pony is as excited as they are when hunting.
I have still yet to hear a rational argument against foxhunting. I have still yet to hear any real evidence against Fallon.
I have given you quite a lot of insights into the reality of the culture of both horse racing professionals and the Hunting community, from a largely anthropological perspective as I was trained to do….objectively. Many of your opinions are without such foundation or participant observation and therefore I can only assume your ideas are based on preconceptions, rumour, subjective experience and ignorance.
To have an opinion about something is one thing. <br>Not everyone’s opinion however is equal. My opinion on <br>astriphyicocal phenomena…while it interests me…would be not as valid as an astrophysics student.
Fallon may well be guilty, and foxhunting may well be cruel. However the bulk of evidence presented do far indicates that neither are proven, and in the case of the latter, the opposite can be proven to be true.
I do not mean that to sound as high horse as it does….<br>on the contrary…I would welcome any "long winded" if rational argument and evidence to the contrary.
Fallon, like hunting, is likely to be the victim of prejudiced findings and lynch mob mentality.
Today I backed Peter Bowen’ shorse in the first race. It was suject of a heavy gamble. It lost, despite a bullying ride from Richard Johnson. In my opinion having seen the race, the horse doesn’t understand yet that the objective is to lead the herd. It had the ability…and the stamina…to win the race, but Johnson couldn’t get it interested.<br>Every one in the bookies said that Johnson gave it a crap ride, didn’t have it up with the leaders (he worked from the word go to try)and that Bowen probably pulled it. What a load of nonsense…as I hope anyone here who saw the race can confirm.
But you see the problem, and the prejudice that is rearing its ugly head. MEANWHILE…..the bookies has posters of Someone under a real cloud …Vinny Jones…all over the place (Ladbrokes). So the idea that corruption is going to put people off betting seems to fly in the face of an expensive advertisng campaign suggesting that people will be encouraged to bet if they think racing is corrupt. <br>Not making any real judgement there…just throwing one up for discussion.
Ya bin too many time wid da pussy clot rudie:biggrin:
Take my point! Sorry for misinterpreting youir words…I am in agreement with most of what you are saying….just the wisdom of saying certain words in certain company out of manners.
(And I just hope to God there are no west Indian women here!)
Ain’y she jusy?
Your depiction of skinheads as yobbos is a stereotype theat flies in the face of the great contribution to society that this subculture has made. The whole ska movement and the first young white to integrate with blacks for example. I habituated the blues clubs in St.Pauls in bristol.
I agree that pc taken to tehse extremes are stupid. certainly you cannot apply modern morality to past cultures in any case.
However….it is NOT a matter of opinion that sq is offensive to native American women. It is…in the same way that using n****r would be to most black people WHEN used by most white people. That s all I am saying. I do not beleive in censorship. If you label someone like Ashley as a sq then you demean what she does.
Most will take offence. That is a fact. Not an opinion.
Are you sick Mr cormack? HUGE FLORAL BELLY WARMERS???!!!!:o
Whoever invented them is on my priotity list of up against the wall along with the person who invented pop socks.:biggrin:
And with the new regime women under 65 and over 18 MUST wear g’s or french at ALL times;, and with basques and suspenders…:angry:
I can’t get much of my heritage far back; some to the 12th century…but that is only one part…but it is the Dent part. According to my late grandmother we go back to celtic warlords. But stumped on the records before 1816…miners back until 1870 and thatchers and blacksmiths before that. Oh and a horsebus driver. Lots of military too….at the NCO level nearly all…. crimea, rourkes Drift, and the world wars.
My girlfriend however has Titus Oates in one part of her family:o In another line though she is reputedly descended from an Iceni warlord. She is from Kent, and has the what is thought of as Iceni look….long dark thin hair, elongated limbs, tall, and blue eyes. But that is pure speculation…and only family heresay as far as I can see.
How about you Drone…anything interesting?
Anyone else? Possibly a subject for a different thread actually.
