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Not a bad Rating for Horses short of Group I Class ;)
BHB senior handicap Nigel Gray said: “I’ve promoted Golan to 127 and moved Nayef to 126, a 4lb improvement on his previous best, and that is working through the rating that I now have for Zindabad in the Hardwicke which would be 121.
:pimp:
robgomm: Yes you are absolutely right. It is a great shame that we haven’t seen horses like Galileo, Giant’s Causeway; Sindaar, Mozart or some others not as four year olds. Because it is normal that horses improve still a lot from three to four. And horses like Halling, Fantastic Light, Swain, Singspiel and so on are the perfect example that worth to send them racing as older horses. Not one of those three horses for example was a Group I winner as a two year or three year old.
<br>But let’s go back to talk about Nayef (and Golan). What I want to say is, they are no Superstars or Horses of the Year or anything else (at least in the moment) ;). But they are real Group I horses.<br>In my opinion English and Irish Racing sets the Standard in Europe and the best horses in Europe compete there. Imagine just for a few second (maybe minutes) how many Group I Races we have every year in Europe? I do not no an exact figure, but just try to think about how many there are….and no take all those horses who won or where placed in those races……and try to make up a list in your mind (Rating) of this horses. And you will see with Nayef (and Golan) you will always be in the Top Ten (1m2f – 1m4f). And this horses should have the right to be called Group I horses.
And just one more question: How many more Group I Races will the first three of the Kinge George will win this year.
prince regent:
I do not know for sure….at the beginning of his career I thought 1m2f will be his distance…..today I probably would say about 1m4f he is a little bit better. From the ground I would say he prefers good ground.
:pimp:<br>
robgomm
Thanks for your long explanation about the Class of Nayef. I found them very interesting to read.<br>As well I can agree with you in some points you made, but I can not agree with all. ;)
A very interesting point is not only the very positive PM view about the race, Timeform speaks very positive about it as well:
The build up to the fifty-second running of Britain’s supreme all-aged middle-distance prize centered as much around those not taking part as it did about the 9 which eventually made the line-up; inevitably, with no 3-y-o (High Chaparral and Sulamani saved for autumn campaigns, Hawk Wing for York), the word substandard appeared in many pre-race reports and, with neither the leading older horse in training (Sakhee, along with High Pitched and Millenary, a morning defector due to the ground being considered too firm) or the cream of the classic crop in the field, the race obviously didn’t realise its objective of bringing the generations together; however, what’s for sure, is that those which ran provided the best-quality contest run in Europe so far this season, a Guineas winner/Derby second finishing clear with a Champion Stakes winner; with 2 pacemakers, the pace was sound and the finish a rousing one
And even the people who have not seen a real Group I performer in Nayef should (must) change their few after the Weekend. This was a great his best performance until know and he showed everyone that he is a real Group I horse.
And the Dubai Form is not so bad like it looks….. the trainer of Boreal (P. Schiergen) was very keen that Boreal can handle fast ground…..and still is. In his opinion Boreal had a day of and nobody knows why. So you shouldn’t underestimate the Dubai Form. And one more question to this race…..What more can a horse do than to win the race by an easy two length?
Here the Timeform opinion about Nayef
<br>NAYEF (USA), stepping back up in trip, ran probably his best ever-race, looking an assured winner when moving up smoothly to lead 2f out, battling on well despite drifting right under pressure; his rider came in for plenty of stick afterwards, but to go overboard on that score wouldn’t be right; inevitably, there has to be a second and, in any case, very few match Fallon in the finishing stakes; pleasingly, this colt was far more settled in the preliminaries than had been the case here last time; as he’s largely indifferent to the state of the going, he looks ideal Arc material, though his next race could reportedly be the Juddmonte International as he was said to have lost very little condition in this contest.
<br>:pimp:
prince regent
I still think (as well after Saturday) that Grandera is a very good horse. My personell opinin is that he is better over 1m2f than over 1m4f. Let’s be honest the Saturdayform was to bad to be true.
:pimp:
Quote: from robgomm on 11:22 am on July 28, 2002[br]Well, here i go again…
DM – i honestly can’t believe that Nayef is a G1 horse…a true one!! Golan might just make it (his Guineas form is terrible and he couldn’t get close to Galileo/Sakhee).
Come on, we are talking about the Timeform Champion Two Year Old 2000, the Champion Stakes Winner 2001, the Dubai Sheema Classic Winner 2002 and the 2nd of the King George 2002. And your opinion is that this horse is not a true Group I performer ?
What else is he? A horse that got lucky on several occasions. That can happen once….but here it happened several times. What else does this horse needs to do to be recognised as a true Group I performer?
13 Starts<br>7 Wins (2 Group I, 3 Group III Races)<br>5 times placed (second, third and fourth in a Group I)
an actual PM Rating of 131 please tell me what does this horse needs more to be recognised as a true Group I horse ?<br> :pimp:
This was a very exiting race and especially a thrilling finish. With Golan we have a good winner and with Nayef a fine second. Both horses ran their hart out today and showed that they are Group I class when they are ready.
The most important form of the race for me was Zindabad who is a real good Group II horse with the capability to win a Group I when everything is right on the day. I cross my fingers for him and his connections that they will find a nice Group I for him….maybe in Germany, Italy or Canada. And every horse that beats an inform Zindabad by three length should be called a Group I horse.
And one last word….or maybe two.<br>:biggrin: <br>Well done Sir M. Stoute for winning the King George with a horse that has his first race<br>Well done Godolphin for not risking Sakhee on Ground to firm for him.
:pimp:<br>
robgomm, remittance man I agree with you that the Champion Stakes last year was not the best Champion Stakes we saw. And like I said he is no Superstar or anything else but a horse that won a Group I Race is England and another in Dubai and what placed in Group I Races in England and Ireland should be called a Group I Horse.
:pimp:
Yes, Nayef is not the Superstar (or Horse of the Century etc.) like some people hailed him after his first two races. But he is a bloody good Racehorse and a real Group I performer.
This horse raced 4 times in Group I Races and won two of them and placed in the two other races. This horse won three Group III Races and raced to a PM of over 120 at several occasions. If this is not a Group I horse…what else is it? What do people except?
:pimp:
Hello Everyone, :wave:
are there still people how think that Grandera has not the Class to win a Group I Race in England :naughty:
:biggrin:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
<br>GREAT…..WELL DONE
Prince Regent, yes you are right I am from Germany. :pimp:
You are as well right (in my opinion) about German Bloodlines… as they favour much more horses for the Derby Distance. And there is no German horse what was or is able to compete with the best in Europe in Sprint Races.
With the weather and ground I can not agree with you. I would say that the ground is mostly good or good/soft. But sometimes you have a wet year like last season where all Group I Races were held on Ground good-soft or softer.<br>
Escorial I agreee with you that this years C. Cup was not the strongest in history. The only point I am “fightingâ€ÂÂ
Here is the full text from Timeform
Timeform:<br>With no Rebelline, Nayef or Sakhee, nor a challenger from Ireland or France, not the renewal it might have been for a race which had been continuing to attract some of the season’s top older horses in most recent years, despite repeated small fields, but it still drew 2 Group 1 winners, one of whom ran out a worthy winner in the conditions; the pace was steady, the race again coming alive only off the home turn, where they bunched to the rail. BOREAL (GER) recorded a career-best effort and now bids for the King George at Ascot; his task here wasn’t so stiff as it might have been on the day and everything dropped right for him, but equally he shouldn’t be underestimated in the top races to come as he’s undoubtedly a high-class colt; soon handy, he was first to the stand rail off the turn and ran on strongly after the runner-up had threatened briefly once switched from behind him, well on top at the finish; a stocky colt, who looked well, his record suggests he needs something of an emphasis on stamina when racing over this trip, so presumably he’ll need similar going to make a real impact at Ascot. STORMING HOME will be one of the stronger contenders for the Hardwicke Stakes at Royal Ascot, reportedly his next intended target, as he’s unpenalised in that event for his success at the meeting last year; he again shaped as though he retains all his ability, waited with and briefly short of room on the rail before being unable to stay on nearly so strongly as the winner once switched round him; his trainer reportedly reckons that he’s a better horse on firmer going, and whether or not that’s true (has won on soft), Storming Home does go well on firm. ZINDABAD (FR), reverting in trip, does just struggle a bit at the highest level (at least over 12f), not that there was much wrong with this performance, as he plugged on willingly after setting the tempo to the straight; though by no means out of things in the Hardwicke, he does have a small penalty for York. MARIENBARD (IRE), for no obvious reason, was disappointing, failing to pick up at all when ridden after 3f out, tending to edge left as he was carried down the camber by his stable-companion; he does have form on any going. PAWN BROKER, even though he isn’t really up to beating the very best, again offered little indication he might be rejuvenated and remains one to have reservations about. KUTUB (IRE) couldn’t have looked in better shape but ran lamentably, hanging left and quickly in trouble once asked to improve; at a subsequent enquiry his rider told the stewards the horse lost his action; given he’s shown his form many times on soft/heavy ground, his performance was completely baffling.
Good Morning Escorial,
I think (for the moment) that Sakhee is the right choice for the Arc, as well I wouldn’t rush to get the 7/2 offered. Good where he will run this season and we often saw Godolphin making some “unpredictableâ€ÂÂ
@ Escorial
I only wanted to show that the Coronation Cup is a real Group I Race, because one thing a race needs to be a Group I is a "racing-history". That’s the main reason it will take some more time until the Races in Dubai are recognised as "real" Group I Races….. but they are on the right way.
One of the few persons I know making money with racing are the bookies… and if a bookmaker like Coral is pricing up Boreal as the fifth Favourite for the Arc the horse must be a proper Group I race. And the Racing Post gave him a Rating of 124…. what  is a very good Rating in my opinion. I can not recall many older horses this year with a higher Rating over 1m4f. And only two three year old what are better (English Derby) and two what are in his league (French Derby).
Can you name me any more 1m4f horses that raced this Year that have a higher Rating than Boreal. Again…… if he wins the King George or the Arc…. is a different story. But the only think I want to tell/proof is that he is Group I Class. And even if Storming Home and Zindbad are “onlyâ€ÂÂ
