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Zip, I reckon there’s every chance you would not be losing out on that bet.
Reet hard, we are definitely singing from the same hymn sheet. I think his jumping at the moment is keeping him from being an absolute superstar. He never looks like falling, and as you say has such a great engine that he manages to make up for it between fences, but the ground lost and more importantly the impetus lost by not landing running, is costing him when he comes up against a horse like Kauto Star.I know I’m going to get accused of sounding like a broken record, but I don’t think Sam Waley Cohen gives the horse confidence. I think Long Run has won despite him rather than for him.
Please God, Nicky Henderson, or even the tooth fairy, let Robert and Sam Cohen see that this horse is begging for a top class jockey to ride him. I don’t wish Sam any ill will, but maybe if he had a little bout of gout on the 16th March, we might just get to see how good this horse is.
Getzippy…..many thanks for that, you are right, my response was indeed intended for thisthatandother, re the "BigG, your full of it"
Hurdygurdyman….my apologies for directing the last post at yourself, I mistakingly took it that it was a follow on from our previous posts.
Getzippy, you may well be right, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Kauto Star won the Gold Cup, he is incredible. I would be cheering for him, as I have at every Gold Cup for the past few years, if he did win.
It won’t surprise you to know that I do think that Long Run will win the Gold Cup whether or not SWC rides him, although I have made my feelings on the jockey positon pretty clear.I am so glad Kauto appears in such fine fettle, it adds spice to the Gold Cup. I would rather it was like that, than at the start of the season when, according to the bookies, it looked a one horse race.
Time will tell, but I will doff my cap if Kauto passes the line first.
JAMIEDB, you are of course right, the phrase "reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" would apply to kauto Star. Many, including myself, thought that Kauto’s best days were behind him. It’s hard to say he was as good as he ever was, but he can’t be far off it. I agree with your comments on Grands Crus, but I don’t think there is any chance of him going for the Gold Cup in any case, I think he will win the RSA Chase
Getzippy…thanks again for pointing out my misdirected post.
Hurdygurdyman
Why would you say that? I’m new to this forum, I certainly don’t want to fall out with anyone, and all I have done is give my honest opinion, which is no better than your honest opinion.
I love discussing horses, I think this is an excellent forum and I have enjoyed reading many of your and others posts on here.
That is just uncalled for.
Hello there Hurdygurdyman…and a happy new year to you.
You said…
["You’re miles off the mark mate you really are.
If the Kauto Star of today met Kauto Star Boxing Day 2009 he wouldn’t have got within 15 lengths of him."]
I have to agree with you, Kauto was 11 at this King George, and 8 in 2009. Chasers are at their peak at 8 or 9 so I wouldn’t expect him to retain the ability he had then, although he is still an amazing racehorse.
That being the case, I cannot agree with your comments below
["Long Run is most likely at the peak of his powers right now and give me the impression he’s very unlikely to get much better despite his age. For him to become as good as Kauto Star was he’s going to have to improve round about 20lbs and that is a huge ask if not impossible."]
Long Run was 6 when he ran in this years King George, and he won it last year at 5. He also won the Gold Cup at 6. Kauto Star, amazing horse that he is, won his first King George at 6 and his first Gold Cup at 7. So there is no reason to doubt that Long Run will improve over the next couple of years. The last 6year old to win the Gold Cup was Mill House in 1963.
I have to repeat again, Kauto Star is my favourite horse of all time, he is amazing, but I am being honest when I say that I think Long Run is a better horse than Kauto at the moment. Yes, as you say, jumping is the name of the game, and Kauto did indeed whip his ass fair and square. But I would ask you to be honest about one thing, if Kauto Star had been ridden by Sam Waley Cohen and Long Run had been ridden by Ruby Walsh…..who do you think would have won the race?
My point is, I think Long Run is the best chaser in the country at present. I think he has the potential to win two or three further King George’s and Gold Cup’s. He is an amazing animal, with a non professional jockey riding him. A top notch professional jockey (ie Geraghty in this case) would iron out some of the problems that Long Run shows with his jumping, give him confidence, and simply get the best out of the horse.
I am not bashing Sam, he is a very good amateur, but don’t tell me it would make no difference to put a jockey of Geraghty’s caliber on Long Run. The sad thing is that with Long Run being owned by Sam’s dad, it is unlikely that it is going to happen. From my point of view, I think this does the horse a disservice.
Like I said before, if Long Run was not owned by Robert Waley Cohen, do you think there would be any chance whatsoever that Nicky Henderson would contemplate putting Sam on the horse ahead of Geraghty. The reason he wouldn’t, is that top jockeys improve horses and win big races. Long Run has already won a King George and Gold Cup with an amateur on his back, so what could he achieve by having a better jockey on him?…..I am afraid we might never find that out.
Hello all again
thisthatandother, I couldn’t agree more with you, Kauto deserves every accolade that is given to him, he is a true equine legend. I am not trying to put Kauto down in any way, he has been my favourite horse for years. I am also not trying to put Sam Waley Cohen down, as i said previously, I think he is a very good amateur jockey.
I am not even trying to say that Long Run would certainly have beaten Kauto, even with Geraghty aboard, I most definitely have not made my mind up on that. What I was doing was voicing a concern that Long Run, or any top class racehorse for that matter, would benefit from the experience of a top jockey. With the best will in the world, I don’t think that even Sam would claim he is on the same planet as Geraghty or Walsh tactically, or when it comes to getting the best out of a horse.
Decisions at the right time, knowing when to give the horse a breather and when to push, keeping the right position in the race and god knows how many other things that God’s of the weighing room, such as Walsh and Geraghty, know better than your average professional jockey, never mind an amateur. It is not possible that these things don’t have an influence. If Long Run was trained by Nicky henderson, but not owned by Robert Waley Cohen, do you really think that Henderson would even contemplate for one second putting Cohen on the horse ahead of Geraghty.
Hurdygurgyman…I couldn’t agree more with you, we will never know if Geraghty riding the horse would have reversed the result. It’s all about opinions, and mine is no better than yours or thisthatandother, albeit slightly different. You are probably right, Ruby is wily enough to have game plan A and game plan B, just in case.
I even agree with you, to an extent, that Sam did not ride a bad race. The whole point I am making, is that Sam Waley Cohen, nice bloke and good horseman that he is, is not a Ruby Walsh or Barry Geraghty.
I want to make it clear, if I haven’t already, that I accept that no matter what permutation of jockey to horse I come up with, the result may not have changed one bit. Can you not maybe accept that with the addition of a senior professional jockey, in this case Geraghty, that the horse may just benefit. Without changing things we will never know.
I think Sam is a very good amateur riding an exceptional horse. I thing Long Run deserves better.
I know I’m in the minority here, and I’m expecting the flack I’ve already seen dished out, but none the less I can only say it as I see it.
Firstly let me say that Kauto Star is magnificent, as good a horse as I have seen, I totally love him. That being said, in the King George I do believe that with Barry Geraghty on Long Run’s back yesterday, the result would be different.
Sam Waley Cohen is a very good amateur jockey, and that is exactly what he is ….. a very good "amateur" jockey. I think tactically he was caught out when Ruby decided to go earlier than he might normally, and although Long Run didn’t crash through any fences, he jumped a good few awkwardly and didn’t "ping" many. He also did not seem to be traveling well at times and for a good deal of the race he kept wide rather than tucking in.
Now even with all that, Long Run was only beaten 1 1/4 lengths. Can anyone here honestly say that with Barry Geraghty on his back, it would not have made 1 1/4 difference.
I believe it would, and today we would have been talking of the new King on the block, instead of suggestions that Long Run only won last years Gold Cup and King George because Kauto Star was not at his best. Remember that when Long Run won the Gold Cup, he did beat a few other horses too, the same type of horses that Kauto beat in his Gold Cup wins.
I know I am going to get shot down here, but I think Long Run is at present a better horse than Kauto Star, and I think that he could well be as good as Kauto has been over the years. You have to consider that Kauto Star won his first King George and Gold Cup at 7years. Long Run is still 6 and has already won a King George and a Gold Cup.
If I could ask for one belated Christmas present, it would be that Nicky Henderson pleads with Robert Waley Cohen to let a professional jockey,ie Barry Geraghty, take the reins on Long Run from now on.
Ok….fire away
Hello all…..my first post on here (so be gentle with me)
I have to say that I am impressed with the standard of the reports on here, this looks like the most professional racing forum I have been on.
So that being said, here’s my tuppence worth. I’m afraid it’s not very original, but I can’t see anything getting near Long Run. Now I accept that he ploughed through more than a few fences in the Betfair, and did not look as sharp as Kauto regardless of that. Paul Nichols made it clear that this was the first time he trained Kauto Star for the race, it was always a stepping stone towards the King George.
Nicky Henderson also made it clear that although Long Run was fit, he had left a bit to do with him, as he was being aimed at the King George and Gold Cup.
Kauto Star is a legend, absolutely no doubt. On his day he is still a force to be reckoned, but on his day at 11 and Long Run on his day at 6, I think there is only one winner. Even with his faults, Long Run managed to win the King George and Gold Cup last year. No horse does that without being an exceptional horse. I know excuses, perhaps fairly, were put up for Kauto Star last year, but he wasn’t the only horse in those races and Long Run trounced them on both occasions.
I know they are still working on his jumping, he is untidy, but even so he has never looked like falling, and never has. I do remember emailing into Mark Chapman in the box at attheraces, voicing concerns over Sam Waley-Cohen before the Gold cup, I said then that I would rather see Barry Geraghty on him, I still would. It’s not that Sam is not a good horseman, he is, but I feel the horse would benefit from a great jockey like Geraghty.
So, even with Sam aboard and even with his sketchy jumping at times, I still think he is the best horse by a good way. I dare say the King George will either make me look very wise…..or a complete plonker. Either way, I can’t wait for it.
Have a merry Christmas all
Hello all…..my first post on here (so be gentle with me)
I have to say that I am impressed with the standard of the reports on here, this looks like the most professional racing forum I have been on.
So that being said, here’s my tuppence worth. I’m afraid it’s not very original, but I can’t see anything getting near Long Run. Now I accept that he ploughed through more than a few fences in the Betfair, and did not look as sharp as Kauto regardless of that. Paul Nichols made it clear that this was the first time he trained Kauto Star for the race, it was always a stepping stone towards the King George.
Nicky Henderson also made it clear that although Long Run was fit, he had left a bit to do with him, as he was being aimed at the King George and Gold Cup.
Kauto Star is a legend, absolutely no doubt. On his day he is still a force to be reckoned, but on his day at 11 and Long Run on his day at 6, I think there is only one winner. Even with his faults, Long Run managed to win the King George and Gold Cup last year. No horse does that without being an exceptional horse. I know excuses, perhaps fairly, were put up for Kauto Star last year, but he wasn’t the only horse in those races and Long Run trounced them on both occasions.
I know they are still working on his jumping, he is untidy, but even so he has never looked like falling, and never has. I do remember emailing into Mark Chapman in the box at attheraces, voicing concerns over Sam Waley-Cohen before the Gold cup, I said then that I would rather see Barry Geraghty on him, I still would. It’s not that Sam is not a good horseman, he is, but I feel the horse would benefit from a great jockey like Geraghty.
So, even with Sam aboard and even with his sketchy jumping at times, I still think he is the best horse by a good way. I dare say the King George will either make me look very wise…..or a complete plonker. Either way, I can’t wait for it.
Have a merry Christmas all