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Both horses won today with the Win Nap ending up 4/7 whilst Minella Class won at 7/4 and paid 1.60 for a Tote Place.
Hope several of you were on.
Gingertipster….for Timeform to have rated Kauto Star above Denman after the 2007/8 season is bordering on the ridiculous as he trounced him fair and square by 7 lengths in that season’s Gold Cup, and, whatever happened afterwards had no bearing as we all know Denman was never the same horse !
We can NEVER know who would have won for sure had they met on other tracks besides Cheltenham and Newbury where Denman had already proved himself.
Timeform do not get it right every time anyway….two examples are on the Flat where they placed Nijinsky above Sir Ivor and Dancing Brave above Golden Fleece….both Lester Piggott and Pat Eddery who rode them would disagree, vehemently ,about those assessments !
That is terrible news,Pants !
Every day can never be taken for granted in life itself…never mind Horse Racing too !
R.I.P Go Native
Why should Kauto Star have the edge on class ?
Denman was unbeaten over fences prior to his debiliating heart problems and who’s to say that would not have continued if that misfortune had not happened to him.
In contrast,Kauto Star had already been beaten over fences before their epic first Gold Cup meeting and was beaten several times in his career without any excuses,albeit he was brilliant at Kempton in winning his five King George races.
No-one can be certain he would have beaten Denman anywhere if Denman had not had his problems after his Gold Cup win.
Unfortunately,it is something we can never know….though we do know the results of their four meetings together !
Todays picks as follows….
1.30 Ascot 2 Minella Class
2.05 Ascot 1 Close Touch (Nap win bet)
Good Luck to All !
Well said, Young Fella…someone else not caught up in the over-hype surrounding Kauto Star !
Neptune Collonges actually did remarkably well to bounce back and win a Grand National as he was also injured after the 2008 Gold Cup and,like Denman,was not the same horse in the 2009 race !
Himself,any chance you can download that photo of the Greatest onto my profile ?
I still side with Long Run, tomorrow ,though if it comes to the jockeys fighting out the finish then Ruby will be too strong for Mr Waley-Cohen !
It will be interesting to see what the final going is reported as.
Well done, Venture To Cognac..you beat me to it…and I saw your namesake in action and stroked him a few times at Lambourn when he was with Fred Winter who trained the ill-fated but potentially best horse he ever had,Killiney,as well as the crack novice chaser,The Dealer,and brilliant Gold Cup winner,Midnight Court,during the same era in the 70s !
Great question,Bachelors Hall !
wyldeside, I remember both those horses well and actually met Dr Carlo Vittadini Grundy’s owner when I worked for British Airways and we had a good chat about him and Orange Bay the second best horse he owned.
Captain Christy,of course,was trained by Pat Taaffe,who said he was a terrific horse but still at least 2 stones behind the mighty Arkle !
His performance in destroying Bula there was every bit as good if not better than any of multiple King George winners Desert Orchid and Kauto Star’s performances as they never defeated a horse of that quality at Kempton !
RedRum77…Rummy was a truly great Grand National horse even though he was rather fortunate that Richard Pitman panicked on Crisp and hit him at the elbow which caused him to wander off a straight line and tired up the long run-in conceding 19lbs,whilst Andy Pandy would surely have won in 1977 but for, unfortunately ,slipping on landing at Bechers second time round when ten lengths clear and going strongly.
I backed all horses concerned so made a profit and Red Rum’s finest win was in 1974 when he did the National double also.
Pat Taaffe is adamant Arkle would have won the Grand National too if he went for it…his owner didn’t want to risk him because of the mayhem of fallers and loose horses, and ,it was ironic she made that comment in 1966 because we all know what happened there in 1967 !
Elgransenor…Denman was a front-runner who could inject pace into a race at any time !
Of course he was versatile too and won over the shorter distances over hurdles,and everyone is aware he was never the same horse after his debilitating heart problems and had proved superior to Kauto Star when they first met,and even did the same twice later on when nowhere near his brilliance shown when unbeaten over fences up to age 8 inclusive.
Indeed, I agree with bozlike,having been involved in 3 Syndicates previously over the years,the only benefit, besides the pride in owning the horses themselves, are the free entrances to the tracks !
Fair comments, betlarge….though given the choice…would you rather be throwing 3 darts at a dart board for a short time on an irregular basis or riding racehorses over countless hurdles and fences for several miles on end, almost every day, to achieve your dominance ?
I know which one I would take….certainly as far as the "danger and injury factor" is concerned !!
Point taken, BH…though there was an 18 days delay between the previous question and the first one I posted here !!
Anyway,your answer to the current question is also correct…though the answer I was looking for was that Ireland won the Grand National and the Derby in the same year for the first time since 1958….another "stat" I provided to Big Mac on course at Epsom BEFORE the Derby was run….trouble is I backed the wrong Irish horse,Aristotle,who was unplaced whilst Sinndar won it !
I was at Longchamp for the Arc that year and was pleased to collect a tidy sum on Sinndar as he turned over Montjeu !
OK…now over to you …take two !
OK..as there seems to be a delay here’s another to keep you all amused…..
What did Ireland achieve in the year 2000 which they hadn’t achieved since 1958 previously ?
Changing Times won at 4/6 and paid 1.50 Tote Place though Red Hot Poker was unplaced…didn’t see the race so not sure what happened to him.
Let’s hope for better racing tomorrow.
Big Bucks wins it again….unquestionably the greatest staying hurdler ever seen and when he wins an unprecedented 5th World Hurdle it won’t surprise me if he joins the greatest chaser,Arkle,in having a race named in his honour at future Cheltenham Festivals !
