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Zaynar to move again. Wisdom of moving?

Home Forums Horse Racing Zaynar to move again. Wisdom of moving?

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  • #21129
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8979

    I see that Zaynar, having gone from Henderson to Williams, is now on the move again, this time to David Pipe.

    Does moving stables ever have a transformational effect?

    Is there any possibility that Pipe will ever be able to take Zatynar anywhere near the heights that the horse once looked it would make it to?

    #394375
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    From my own experience, I can confidently say that moving stables can have a massive effect. A new approach can discover problems that went unappreciated at another stable and a change of scenery can work wonders for a horse who has gone ‘stale’

    #394389
    The Young Fella
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2066

    I thought Nick Williams did well with Zaynar. Obviously he couldn’t get him back to his Champion Hurdle-placed best, but winning a graded novices’ chase is pretty good considering how sour he often looks.

    Good luck to David Pipe with him. Hopefully Zaynar’s owners lower their expectations a little if it becomes clear that the horse just isn’t capable of what he used to be.

    #394391
    Triptych
    Participant
    • Total Posts 13114

    Watching Zaynar’s race again at Kempton on Saturday after he had jocked off Tom Scudamore, his tendency to dive left before jumping his fences was more pronouncd for the first few jumps, then he got into his stride and seemed to be enjoying himself and he put in some really good jumps throughout the race.

    Even though I knew my money had gone west I really enjoyed watching him enjoy himself jumping and running with the pack.

    I wish him well with David Pipe and feel that once he has ironed out a few creases the Zaynar of old will be back in the winners enclosure where he belongs once more. :wink:

    Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
    #394407
    grey dolphin
    Participant
    • Total Posts 653

    Was it really sensible to run a horse who has well known ‘commitment’ issues twice in 8 days? having apparently rekindled the horses enthusiasm, I just felt they may have asked too many questions of him.

    #394413
    Prestbury
    Member
    • Total Posts 178

    When Zaynar won the Triumph three years ago he was one I tipped for greatness (along with Carruthers), but has proved costly to follow, lets hope David Pipe & his team can finally get a tune out of him,
    his owners obviously believe he’s capable of more with the right handler & they pay the piper (sorry)

    #394469
    JJMSports
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2033

    Would be surprised if Pipey didn’t find a decent handicap chase for him to win. Pretty shrewd.

    #394665
    Roseblossom
    Participant
    • Total Posts 354

    Seems harsh to do it at this point of the season, as he’s done pretty well that blip aside. I’m not sure I’d send him to the trainer whose stable jock has just been outfoxed by the wily rogue, either.

    If he’s smart enough he’ll remember that slamming on the brakes is a very effective way of ensuring one can have an easy spin round. I’m quite looking forward to seeing what happens next, we could have a new Chaninbar to enjoy – or if we’re lucky, a new Vodkatini.

    #394675
    KINGFISHER
    Member
    • Total Posts 1508

    Would be surprised if Pipey didn’t find a decent handicap chase for him to win. Pretty shrewd.

    No shrewder than Henderson and Nick Williams training of ‘Diamond Harry’ to win the Hennessey only confirms the fickle relations between some Owners and their Trainers,anyone who thinks the ‘Pipe’ establishment will achieve anything more than the horses previous trainers are deluding themselves,he’s a rogue is

    Zaynar

    ,shame as his Triumph Victory had Champion written all over it,particularly over fences but No I’ll avoid him like the plague……….Until you see him in a Paddy Power Gold cup with 10-4 on his back! :shock:

    #394724
    Steeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5783

    Strange horse. I never liked him much over hurdles – thought him temperamental. But early ‘chase exploits looked hugely positive – he went at the fences with real enthusiasm which fooled me into backing him the last twice.

    But it looks like the novelty of fencing wore off early for him. You can never discount a physical problem with horses like Zaynar, but the fact that he waltzed round minus jockey last time weakens that argument.

    He’s one of those smart horses who wants to do as he likes rather than what we want him to do.

    I doubt anyone will find the key to him and owners regularly moving horses illustrates, more than any other factor, the delusions which take a fierce hold of some of them – beloved of the bookies, despaired of by trainers.

    Henry Alper
    Dorothy Paget
    D Wildenstein

    More?

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #394728
    The Young Fella
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2066

    Thomas Barr taking horses away from David Pipe was quite petulant. They didn’t do much better or worse with other trainers.

    I think it was sad how Niche Market got taken out of Bob Buckler’s yard, too. The horse had great success there and it must be awful for a trainer to lose their stable star having done such a good job.

    #394739
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28423

    Was it really sensible to run a horse who has well known ‘commitment’ issues twice in 8 days? having apparently rekindled the horses enthusiasm, I just felt they may have asked too many questions of him.

    It does seem a strange decision to run a temperamental type twice in eight days GD, very unusual for Nick Williams to do so too. Makes me wonder whether there was a difference of opinion, with the Williams’s not wanting to run. A falling out perhaps?

    Actually, it might be a good idea to change stables regularly with a dodgepot like Zaynar. Obvious the Grey has his own mind about things. A change of scenery / routine might do him good. If I owned that sort of animal, I’d think seriously of having three or four stables for him. Going from one to the other and back again, changing every few months.

    On the other hoof…
    Before David Pipe took over Junior, he seemed a right xxx. Took an age to lose his maiden over hurdles. getting a Timeform squiggle. Yet Pipe transformed Junior in to a genuine and consistent sort, winning at both Royal Ascot and the Cheltenham Festival and joint favourite for the Grand National. Must be said some Nicholshane inmates have gone the other way too. Got great respect for Zaynar’s ex’s Henderson and Williams as trainers, also Junior’s King and Meehan, but can understand connections wanting a try with Pipe. Very few horses change temperament without changing stables.

    Value Is Everything
    #394768
    MarkTT
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2802

    Strange horse.

    Daylami as a jumps sire :

    Zaynar – nuff said
    Brampour – Reached his level and he’ll have to drop down the weights to win again
    Ebaziyan – early Cheltenham win and downhill from there
    Pigeon Island – tough as boots ( ran about 19 times in 2007 ) but again reached a level and regressed.
    Pearl King – victories as a novice and then regressed

    Best years tend to be 4-7. I fully expect Tetlami to regress from next season.

    #395227
    theplasticpaddy
    Member
    • Total Posts 57

    On the wisdom of moving, Niche market out of the National. Never pleased when a horse hurts himself but as it seems minor I will allow myself a wee smile. Bob Buckler wins an Irish national for the owner so he decides to take the horse to Nicholls. Bob Buckler is such a gentleman he said it was mutual etc but anybody who knows what happened knows what a kick in the nether regions it was for one of the sports really good men. Never wish a horse ill because he doesn’t choose his connections but some people don’t deserve such good horses. Hope the horse comes back sound and continues to lose every race. Better keep an eye out for what happens to him at the end of his career.

    #395241
    The Young Fella
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2066

    Better keep an eye out for what happens to him at the end of his career.

    I agree with a lot of your post, theplasticpaddy. Just wondering what you are suggesting with this line. Thanks. :)

    #395255
    theplasticpaddy
    Member
    • Total Posts 57

    Better keep an eye out for what happens to him at the end of his career.

    I agree with a lot of your post, theplasticpaddy. Just wondering what you are suggesting with this line. Thanks. :)

    Nothing more than what i said. Would like to see transparency about what happens to horses when they are retired become a clear part of the game. My mother’s homebreds have gone on to riding horses, dressage and even the show ring. Unfortunately, some do not do as well. Hope Niche Market enjoys a long happy retirement having SAFELY lost all his remaining races. I am sure his owner will provide it for him!!?????????????????!

    #395381
    Tuffers
    Member
    • Total Posts 1402

    Nothing more than what i said. Would like to see transparency about what happens to horses when they are retired become a clear part of the game. My mother’s homebreds have gone on to riding horses, dressage and even the show ring. Unfortunately, some do not do as well. Hope Niche Market enjoys a long happy retirement having SAFELY lost all his remaining races. I am sure his owner will provide it for him!!?????????????????!

    Apparently your wish is the owner’s command. He’s been retired and given to Harry Skelton.

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