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But if anyone seriously thinks that Jonjos comments, making out he was scared of the opposition was true then perhaps you belong in a betting shop.
Tell that to the antepost backers who backed Rhinestone Cowboy for the Champion Hurdle in 2004 or those who backed Black Jack Ketchum for the RSA Nov Hdl in 2006.
In 2003 Jonjo stated he thought Intersky Falcon was the better of the two but none of them were true Champion Hurdle class. I believe I speak the truth when I say most of the lads in the Yard backed the Falcon.
There were two Rhinestone Cowboys one who could be brilliant one that could be useless as the horse had a mind of his own. Never once did he say the horse would win the Champion Hurdle and privately he never fancied him an inch. Horses like him simply don’t win Champion Hurdles. He may have been a favourite with many punters but never with the yard.
Then you come to BJK and if you ask me they are both tarred with the same brush. Trainers don’t not run horses because they are scared it’s because they are doing what is most sensible for the horse.
Jonjo O’Neill one of the bravest jockeys in the history of racing scared. That is ludicrous and you know nothing of the man and the way he thinks.
Take a look at WL. He’s probably about 90-95% right at the moment and sure Jonjo could run him. He’s highly unlikely to beat ID if he runs to form. What would happen is he would be well enough to put himself into the race. Then he could end up having a very very hard race. There is absolutely no benefit to the horse doing that and it could set him back a month.
Much depends on the Animal you are training when you make these decisions and back street drivers who think they know better than the trainer are basically a pain in the ass.
Why didn’t Nicky Henderson’s stick Binocular in against the Triumph favourite instead of looking for an easier race where he could run him against lesser animals? 2 reasons because he’s a good trainer and he thinks the horse if looked after will win at Cheltenham.
Trainers are scared all right, scared they listen to people like the aforementioned and mess up months and months of hard work.
The plan is come Cheltenham WL will be ready to fight for his life and if the wee man is right ID will not have everything his own way. I’m quite happy to trust, wait and watch what should be a great race.
FofF,
What has the 2003 Champion Hurdle got to do with the fact that Jonjo sidestepped the 2004 CH to go for the Coral Cup with Rhinestone Cowboy?
Or the fact that he ran BJK in the 3m event to avoid a clash with Denman? Just like he did when he pulled BJK out at Bangor when the pair were due to clash.
Your rant has nothing to do with the point david brady made.
FofF,
What has the 2003 Champion Hurdle got to do with the fact that Jonjo sidestepped the 2004 CH to go for the Coral Cup with Rhinestone Cowboy?
Or the fact that he ran BJK in the 3m event to avoid a clash with Denman? Just like he did when he pulled BJK out at Bangor when the pair were due to clash.
Your rant has nothing to do with the point david brady made.
Is that right Smithy well aren’t we the smart one DUH!!!!!?
Perhaps the 2003 enlightened the man to the fact he was not, as he thought, up to Champion Hurdle class. As the 2004 looked an ever hotter race he decided what a waste of time and money. What finished second to Hardy Eustace that day was it the horse that kicked the **** out of RC the year before? How did RC do in the Coral Cup?…soft git couldn’t even win that but did get placed………was Jonjo right….bet your ass he was..
Would that be the 2m5f 58,000 pound race over a trip thought to be on the short side against some real hot pots…the time when Jonjo looked at the 42,000 pound race over a more suitable 3 miles and thought "Fook me I’ll have some of that" The same race that he won and his owner was doing cartwheels afterwords.
Scared my ass sensible yes…….one horse won one got placed 2 happy owners or maybe you think he should have thought about all those silly AP punters who bet without thinking then complain because things don’t go their way.
Not a cat in hells chance
Good man Luke. Are u speaking from experience there from all your experiences with Jp on the track?? Unlikely I would’ve have thought.
He started off as a bookmaker and he accumulated his money from there as a bookmaker – in certain instances with other individuals representing him often going top price about a number of his own horses.
From there, he moved to backing. So in summary he began his tank from laying.
On the friday of the 2002 Grand National meeting I walked the course with an Irish bookmaker from my hometown(Waterford).JP used to bet with him in the early days but he was too hot to handle.He gave me chapter and verse on how deadly he was and strangely enough the coups mentioned weren’t at the big meetings.Later in the bar we were joined by the top man in a prominent Irish firm-the talk returned to the great man and its fair to say neither of the bookies was a fan.
Maybe he did some laying-I wasn’t aware of it but logic says he started as a punter.Good man Luke. Are u speaking from experience there from all your experiences with Jp on the track?? Unlikely I would’ve have thought.
He started off as a bookmaker and he accumulated his money from there as a bookmaker – in certain instances with other individuals representing him often going top price about a number of his own horses.
From there, he moved to backing. So in summary he began his tank from laying.
On the friday of the 2002 Grand National meeting I walked the course with an Irish bookmaker from my hometown(Waterford).JP used to bet with him in the early days but he was too hot to handle.He gave me chapter and verse on how deadly he was and strangely enough the coups mentioned weren’t at the big meetings.Later in the bar we were joined by the top man in a prominent Irish firm-the talk returned to the great man and its fair to say neither of the bookies was a fan.
Maybe he did some laying-I wasn’t aware of it but logic says he started as a punter.There’s a lot of truth in what Ratpack is saying especially about Laying his own. That however was way back in the wild wild west days and those stories died along time ago.
AS far as where he started his tank from, his first venture into bookmaking was way ahead of him becoming a professional Gambler or Mad punter whichever you prefer.
He was laying little bow wows which were his first love well before moving on to horses. What people may not know the man had plenty money behind him when he started, so how much or how little he made from his stint at Limerick is anyone guess.
The above ‘discussions’ regarding BJK’s RSA ‘ducking’ of Denman et al is a fine example of how the ongoing Grade 1 saturation is lowering the Cheltenam quality.
The Rynair upgrade being another example. Fondmort and Thisthatandtother open Grade 1 festival class winners? I think not. The Gold Cup will cut up extremely badly this year, not just because KS and Denman have people running scared but because there is now a softer Grade 1 to aim at.
Apologies for going off track, the above happens to be my largest current blood boiler and a only require a slight opening before venting my spleen.
I do think Cheltenham has had its quality compromised somewhat.
I think the Ryanair is the only new race that was needed. Should it have group 1 status? Probably.
Zip
Say you owned or trained a horse with a good chance for the Cheltenham Festival, and your yard had a virus six weeks before the event. There is no way of knowing for certain if the horse has, or has not got the virus.
Would you:
A) Let him run where he could have a hard race when under the weather, risking setting the horse back and losing the chance of a Festival winner?
or
B) Make an excuse for not running him to ensure he comes to no harm. With the strong probability of being over any possible problem come the big day?Good decision Jonjo.
Value Is Everything"Fist of Fury 2k8 wrote: How did RC do in the Coral Cup?…soft git couldn’t even win that but did get placed………
I was working at Timeform at the time Fists and as I recall RC put up a better performance in defeat that day, off a handicap mark of 165, than the Champion Hurdle winner itself (Hardy Eustace). And that with a passenger on his back by the name of Mr. JP Magnier.
Surely Hardy Eustace won the Champion Hurdle that year the welsh wizard. Wasn’t Rhinestone Cowboy third to Rooster Booster?
Paddy Power are still ducking any money for Witchita Linesman. 9/2 shortest price available with them. Beware of the Linesman.
Absolute poppycock zoso
"the welsh wizard":1md39pmq wrote:
How did RC do in the Coral Cup?…soft git couldn’t even win that but did get placed………
I was working at Timeform at the time Fists and as I recall RC put up a better performance in defeat that day, off a handicap mark of 165, than the Champion Hurdle winner itself (Hardy Eustace). And that with a passenger on his back by the name of Mr. JP Magnier.
Quite frankly I wouldn’t rate any of the two of them. Rooster Booster booster muct be the worst Campion Hurdle winner ever. I have never thought of Hardy Eustace as anything more than a tough workmanlike horse. He only won the first Champion Hurdle becuase it was rubbish and would never have won a second had Harchibald not thrown in the towel.
We really are scraping the bottom of the barrell which I thought was made blatantly clear by both Sublimity who can best be described as good and the new kid on the block Sizing Europe. SE would be 7 lbs superior to HE ever was and he’s only just kicking off. Just my opinion of course, but to be honest I am glad we are moving into a new era.
We are not quite there yet as I think the real dangers to SE are not what he has to beat this year but the younger horses coming through the ranks and hopefully next year we will see a real Champion Hurdler emerge something we have been missing since Istabraq.
I was always a fan of RC, and remember the Coral Cup with despair, seemed to cruise round, turned for home in contention- still thought he’d win, then the first 2 got away and the jockey never got after him until it was too late. AAGH!! He then won Aintree Hurdle, and the Punchestown Stayers beating Iris’s Gift fairly convincingly. Unfortunately he got injured and was never the same.
Back to the thread, I’d like to see WL win, but can’t see it at the moment, the stable seems to be hit or miss, mainly miss. You couldn’t back him with any great confidence I’m afraid.The above ‘discussions’ regarding BJK’s RSA ‘ducking’ of Denman et al is a fine example of how the ongoing Grade 1 saturation is lowering the Cheltenam quality.
The Rynair upgrade being another example. Fondmort and Thisthatandtother open Grade 1 festival class winners? I think not. The Gold Cup will cut up extremely badly this year, not just because KS and Denman have people running scared but because there is now a softer Grade 1 to aim at.
Apologies for going off track, the above happens to be my largest current blood boiler and a only require a slight opening before venting my spleen.
I don’t get it Peruvian.
There are far, far better horses running in the RyanAir in a few weeks, than there are in the Champion Chase.
If you ask me, the RyanAir looks like being entirely representative for a Grade 1 Chase at the trip, with the Champion Chase looking more like a decent 2m handicap run at level weights.
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