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Very impressed by what we saw on RUK and from many years of following the stable down south, I know that it’s quite rare for a Charlton 2-y-old to win first time out, especially this early in the season. In the last four years, he’s never had more than one juvenile winner before July 1st. Second run and August/September are usually the time to step in and back his 2-y-olds.
I suspect he’s also been quite clever by running her this week as there can be no expectation that she’d go to Royal Ascot. So maybe the fillies race on the King George card at the end of July, but a better choice might be the Sweet Solera, Gp3 over 7F at Newmarket on Aug 6th.
Very exciting.
I doubt it. To be grey, a horse must have at least one grey parent and therefore one can expect roughly 50% of Linamix’s progeny out of non-grey mares to be grey. Of course, any of his progeny out of grey mares will be grey and grey only.
Linamix was a homozygous grey, so all of his progeny were grey regardless of the colour of the mare.
Incidentally two heterozygous greys can have a non-grey foal if neither happen to pass on the dominant grey gene (so approx 25% of the time – the same probability as two heterozygous bay parents having a chestnut foal).
Oops, thanks for clarifying.
Linamix had two grey parents so of course he is homozygous.
Reckon she might go for the Cherry Hinton. The fillies race on the King George card I think is called the princess margaret.
With all the hype about his horses on this thread, It’s worth noting than none of his horses have yet to post a racing post rating in excess of 90, normally the starting point for high class juveniles.
Having said that I would be very surprised if Fair Eva wasn’t given a figure above that mark for that brilliant win. She’s the best of his progeny I’ve seen so far. Ground hungry and very fluent stride just like her sire.
Would be surprised as well if he didn’t have a winner at Royal Ascot. New Approach had a couple in his first season and Frankel would have been a good way above him on the track. Cunco looks a very interesting player in the Chesham.
Virtually impossible to be rated above 90 first time out in a maiden Judge. I think even Frankel was only 89 coz we didn’t know he was beating a King George winner. First time out ratings will always err on the side of caution. But you are right in that they still have to prove themselves at a higher level.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Guys, at the risk of sounding like a smarty pants, I’ve said it all along – the huge advantage Frankel’s have is the huge advantage Frankel had!!! In my view he wasn’t just slightly the best horse we have ever seen, he was by far the best horse we have ever seen. He was off the scale. I’m not even sure dear old Henry let us see the very best of him. We all wondered how he would be over 5f or 6f – we are getting a glimpse now. I wonder if they’ll stay 12f? Tony Morris talked about his “regression to the mean” – that a great horse can never produce one as good as himself. But here’s a scary thought – what if Frankel was actually better than 143? What if he was really closer to 150? Opens up other options.
Anyway all we have to do is fasten ourselves in and enjoy this wonderful ride!!!
I recall Sir Henry Cecil mentioning that Frankel would’ve been even better at 5YO had he remained in training. I believe that Frankel would’ve stayed 12 furlongs standing on his head. The fact that we never got to the bottom of him does raise the possiblity of a potential 150 rating. The consummate ease in which he traveled in his races towards the latter end of his career while other horses were already off the bridle was mind-blowing.
Looking out for all the Frankelettes is getting kinda addictive. It’s already giving Flat racing an extra edge. Stirring times ahead! :-D
I have to confess that I was one of the doubters over this. I have no doubt at all that Frankel is the best flat race horse I have ever seen, and by some way, but temperament and pedigree had me questioning what he would be like as a stallion. Plus, the history of the TB is littered with exceptional racehorses who didn’t make it as stallions – e.g. Brigadier Gerard, Sea Bird. I’d still say its ‘early days’ – even if what we are seeing currently is right ‘up there’. Someone on another forum has likened the start to that of Sadler’s Wells. I can also remember the hype that accompanied Mill Reef’s first 2yos, the first of which to run won by 10 lengths, and then did nothing as I recall, but there were many others that set the imagination going, just like these are.
What is certainly noticeable from the VTs is that Frankel has passed on his own, unique, style of running to his first three winners i.e. that combination of sustained speed with a long stride that others struggled to follow, or fell in a heap if they tried to keep up with. In the case of all three of these winners, it’s that combination which is carrying them on through the line when the runs of others have come to an end. This has to be something to do with aerobic capacity, surely? In which case, then, perhaps there is something different going on here?
That said, some of these pedigrees are ‘interesting’ – Cunco (in bred 3×3 to Sadler’s Wells and 3×3 to Danehill) …Great pics St Nic. She still looked full of herself after the race! Lovely looking filly. Let the good times roll!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
His damsire is Linamix who tends to churn out Greys
Does this mean that he takes after Linamix rather than Frankel ?
Linamix was that rarity among thoroughbreds, a true-breeding grey, so every single one of his offspring was grey. Underneath that grey coat, Linamix was a true-breeding bay/brown.
The colour of Frankel’s foals will have no bearing on their ability, or lack of it.
Virtually impossible to be rated above 90 first time out in a maiden Judge. I think even Frankel was only 89 coz we didn’t know he was beating a King George winner. First time out ratings will always err on the side of caution. But you are right in that they still have to prove themselves at a higher level.
“virtually impossible” is surely a huge exaggeration though.
Many first time out two year olds achieve a racing post rating in excess of 90 first time out. Mokarris, who runs in the coventry for example. Caravaggio. Global applause.
That’s not to say it’s the be all and end all and others can’t improve past them.
Didn’t Sutter County cause a stir when rated in three figures on his debut for Mark Johnston this season?
It all depends what a horse runs against first time as to how high a rating you can hang on them. In the case of Fair Eva the runner up came in rated 76 by the Racing Post, so we have a ball park figure.
I said on the 2YO thread that Fair Eva would need to run to between 85 and 90 to win her race. I thought the Racing Post would have put a figure up for her by now but it’s not there yet.
I’ll be surprised if she hasn’t bested Cunco’s figure of 88.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Yeah I think she will be over 90 as well Steve.
Although posting big numbers as a two year old is hardly a guarantee of long term success. Air Force blue is a good example.
Perhaps the point about whether they are rated 85 or 90 is immaterial but if you listen to some of the posters on here all his progeny should be rated in the 120’s already
Yeah I think she will be over 90 as well Steve.
Although posting big numbers as a two year old is hardly a guarantee of long term success. Air Force blue is a good example.
Perhaps the point about whether they are rated 85 or 90 is immaterial but if you listen to some of the posters on here all his progeny should be rated in the 120’s already
Although he ended the season rated 124, Air Force Blue was nowhere near that on his first start. I don’t have the exact figure but he came out of the Coventry Stakes rated 108 for finishing second to Buratino.
Once we get horses rated in the 90’s facing each other and one beating the other, then the figures can begin to rise as the pecking order gets established and the young horses improve from race to race.
It is early days to be anointing sires as Kings, because we need to see how they progress with their racing and then the bigger test coming of how they perform next year.
Fair Eva put up a performance that was all you could wish for in a debut. Regardless of her sire, she looked loaded with ability and I think she looks the business.
Roger Charlton said he hasn’t thought about where to go next. I am a bit surprised by that and I feel they should be looking at three runs for her this year. I would say one run in the summer and then the Moyglare would be plenty for this year.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
There’ll be plenty reaching the 120’s in time Judge just wait and see.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Yeah I think she will be over 90 as well Steve.
Although posting big numbers as a two year old is hardly a guarantee of long term success. Air Force blue is a good example.
Perhaps the point about whether they are rated 85 or 90 is immaterial but if you listen to some of the posters on here all his progeny should be rated in the 120’s already
Although he ended the season rated 124, Air Force Blue was nowhere near that on his first start. I don’t have the exact figure but he came out of the Coventry Stakes rated 108 for finishing second to Buratino.
Once we get horses rated in the 90’s facing each other and one beating the other, then the figures can begin to rise as the pecking order gets established and the young horses improve from race to race.
It is early days to be anointing sires as Kings, because we need to see how they progress with their racing and then the bigger test coming of how they perform next year.
Fair Eva put up a performance that was all you could wish for in a debut. Regardless of her sire, she looked loaded with ability and I think she looks the business.
Roger Charlton said he hasn’t thought about where to go next. I am a bit surprised by that and I feel they should be looking at three runs for her this year. I would say one run in the summer and then the Moyglare would be plenty for this year.
Two more races for me, slowly, slowly, catchy monkey. 7f listed next followed by maybe the fillies mile or a group 2 / 3 event. No need to go mad yet, just steady progression.
Silly bookies let Frankuus drift to 4/1 sp
Good invention that best price guarantee
Early thread of the year contender this eh Joni…….
This looks to have a bit of an engine about him. Ran the final furlong with his head to one side.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
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