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Senator looks nothing special to me and seeing him at Carlisle sent shivers down my back.
Today’s runner-up is a thoroughly exposed 74 rated horse and that’s miles from being anywhere near classy.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Not sure why it should send shivers down your back Stevie – perhaps you have a cold coming on. Hopefully you’ll pick a winner or two later this week to perk you up a bit! Senator beat an experienced 74 rated horse by a length and three quarters giving him 7lbs. That’s a mid to late 80’s performance from a horse who obviously has plenty to learn and needs further. He might not end up being top class but he’s 2 from 2 and unexposed.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Not sure why you are referring me to Angus Gold? My quote is from Richard Fahey who said he had Queen Kindly ready to run in the first 2yo race of the year but was afraid to run her in case she got beat, and is indicating that other trainers feel the same.
Interesting comments by all. As some have pointed out it’s not all sweetness and light.
Frankel had his pick of the very best mares in his first season. It won’t get any easier for him. But he’s done very well so far. Tomorrow a big day for him too.
I’m really sorry guys but how is 12 winners out of 20 in the UK not all sweetness and light? What were you expecting? Yes he has good mares but we all know that is no guarantee. In fact many on here were at pains to point that out before the season started. Many thought that he was over-priced as a stallion and would probably fail. It’s all there in the earlier posts. He has stacks of good mares in his 2nd, 3rd and 4th books and his record this year is hardly going to deter breeders in the future is it? So how is it not going to get easier for him? He is firing in winner after winner after winner. Are they all going to win G1’s? No of course not. But they are achieving a median standard that is totally unprecedented. His figures are there for all to see and yet some are still not satisfied. An unbeaten 2 year old sends shivers down the spine, a quote from Fahey is interpreted as all the other trainers are not running Frankel’s because they are scared of getting beat and ignoring what breeders like Angus Gold said. If Senator had got beat today then at least I could understand to some degree but he won! Comfortably.
It seems that some on here have that horrible British disease of wanting something to fail. This is a positive thread about an incredible horse who is turning into an incredible sire and I guess some of you get annoyed by my constant positivity/optimism. I understand that but I am only posting his runners and his winners. I can’t help it if they keep winning!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Not sure why it should send shivers down your back Stevie – perhaps you have a cold coming on. Hopefully you’ll pick a winner or two later this week to perk you up a bit! Senator beat an experienced 74 rated horse by a length and three quarters giving him 7lbs. That’s a mid to late 80’s performance from a horse who obviously has plenty to learn and needs further. He might not end up being top class but he’s 2 from 2 and unexposed.
I don’t like well bred horses running at gaffe tracks, it’s always smacked of a lack of confidence for me.
You can relax Joni, I am playing with the bookies money this week, having had a double on Trixia and Almanzour at Deauville on Monday. I thought 10/1 and 5/1 on those two was a gift from the gods when considering that Trixia had been confidently backed to win the race won by Qemah on her seasonal debut. A 4 month hiatus seemed to suggest all was not well when 4th to the filly who went on to stamp her claim to being the one Minding would have most to worry about at a mile. Almanzour was a French Derby winner available at 5/1 for the French man of the moment JC Rouget yet somehow Ultra was the favourite.
I had two singles and a double on those two and 65/1 the double was a nice one to start the week. I did share them on the forum but they were in a thread about the Champion Stakes.
These Frankels can’t all be good and it still worries me how few we have seen. Time is running out for debutants who could be realistic Guineas contenders and the Derby/Oaks will come soon enough for the later developers.
Fair Eva is very much the flag bearer and it will be interesting to see how 6F on fast at York suits her. Ultimately they are going to want to settle her for races at a mile and I just wonder if you can get away with that sort of style at a track like York with other fillies perhaps setting off hell for leather to try to take the favourite out of her comfort zone. Fair Eva was slowly away on her debut and a repeat of that could be problematical in a pure sprint.
She has the class and carries my money long and short term, my concern is if you have to make a horse run like a sprinter this year, how does that impact the longer term career.
Hopefully she will put my mind at ease tomorrow, I really feel she could be a stone clear by season’s end.
Senator? Well, I am just not feeling it with him. Sorry.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Frankels median figure will stay high while they continue to only run the good ones. Running in soft races will also produce flattering statistics.
We won’t know until next year how the horses train on and what sort of races they are capable of winning.
A thread is a thread. If it’s only positive comments allowed then there is absolutely no point in having the thread.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I also think with Joni and IB that Queen Kinldy will give Fair Eva something to think about tomorrow in the Lowther. By Lady Of The Desert she’s a real speed merchant and I can see these two taking each other on at the finish with Queen Kindly coming with a late run to try to pick off her talented half sister
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I’m not a great fan of Roger Charlton as a trainer and although he’s had success with the colts Bated Breath, Decorated Knight, Al Kazeem he’s not known for his success with fillies. It’s the man behind the horse that worries me … Fair Eva now has her 3rd different jockey on board whilst Queen Kindly has always been ridden by Jamie Spencer who thinks the World of her, that could make all the difference especially with a filly.
Jamie was brilliant on Michael Bell’s Sariska, Kevin Darley on Attraction and Kevin Manning rode Alexander Goldrun in every single race of her 3 year career.Fair Eva is by far the best of Frankel’s progeny so far but so many more remain behind closed doors, we haven’t seen Midday’s daughter yet Mori and who knows what she will be capable of.
Looking forward to The Lowther tomorrow and great to see Senator dotting up today at Carlisle. Frankel has already made a great mark in his first season and so much more to look forward too, I wish Sir Henry were still around to be enjoying all this
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Given his own family history, I never really expected Frankel to do particularly well with 2 year old at all, so everything so far has been a pleasant surprise as far as I’m concerned. Looks like most of the ones we’ve seen will be better 3 year olds to me anyway. Senator may never be a world beater but he looks like he needs to grow into his big stride and, with respect to Carlisle, should be capable of far better, even now. We haven’t really learned anything new about him (and I doubt he’s learned much more either). I’m still prepared to keep an open mind, despite the poor opposition. Lowther looks like a top contest, and by no means a 2 horse race. I’ll be watching with great interest but probably won’t bother having a bet.
Nice one Stevie – glad you haven’t lost your touch. Of course you can make any comment you like positive or not, I just thought sending shivers down your spine was a bit extreme. I guess Carlisle would be Richard Fahey’s equivalent of Sir Henry using Yarmouth. I wouldn’t get too upset by it. There’s plenty of time for better races on better tracks. Now is all about education with a horse that doesn’t yet know how to run properly.
I would be amazed if there were stable-loads of useless Frankel’s hiding behind closed doors with petrified trainers unwilling to run them. If you listen to Hugo Palmer or Roger Varian or Criquette Head or Sir Michael or pretty much any trainer with Frankel’s you will hear the same thing; they are coming along nicely and many will be seen back-end of the season. Angus Gold confirmed it from the owner’s side that many within the business thought that Frankel wouldn’t be producing many precocious types and pretty much everyone has been surprised by how good he is. These horses have class not speed. We can only go on what we have seen and what we have seen has been spectacular.
Steve you are probably right that time is running out on Guineas horses but I would point out that, over the last 25 years, there have been plenty of Guineas winners who didn’t make their debuts until August, September or October so I wouldn’t start counting your money just yet!
Yes Fair Eva is the flag-ship at the moment as she is the speediest/classiest but there are plenty we have seen with great potential not least Aljezeera, Seven Heavens, Toulifaut and Zefferino. What I meant by this is “a positive thread” is that it is a thread specifically about Frankel started over 2 years ago in eager anticipation of exactly what we are seeing now. You will forgive us fans if we can’t therefore use the thread as a means of expressing our excitement.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
“Senator is a big, raw horse and he needs a mile. It has done him good to have two races over 6f but we will probably step him up now.” Robin O’Ryan trainer’s representative.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
With Frankel doing so well, Coolmore must be getting worried. Needing a top class sire to replace Galileo.
Value Is EverythingSadler’s Wells was 21 years when Galileo went to stud, and Galileo is 18. so they wont be too worried yet. If he hasn’t produced a replacement for himself already in Australia or Gleneagles, he has 3 crops out there to run in addition to this year’s 2yos, and all going well, several more crops still to come.
Coolmore supported Australia very well with their own mares in his first season, they usually wait until a stallion proves himself before supporting him (as they did for Galileo).
Camelot was also well supported, and as a fast uncomplicated Montjeu, with very classy foals and yearlings, he also has great potential.
At some point, they will switch Galileo’s mares to Australia, Camelot, Gleneagles or another, whichever is proving himself, and most of Galileo’s top progeny are out of their own mares. They really have an excellent broodmare band to support a stallion (it’s worth noting that Toulifaut, Majoris and Cunco are out of cast-off Coolmore mares they sold in foal to Frankel).
In the meantime, they are sending European mares, not only to War Front, but to American Pharaoh and Uncle Mo,
so we can expect to see lots of little APs and Uncle Moes running this side of the pond.Bubble burst not completely. Fair Eva needed a step up to seven furlongs not being asked to face a speedier test than she had at Ascot.
Bad placing for me and bad decisions can do horses harm especially two year olds.
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