August 27, 2007 at 19:29 #4940
Don’t know, but it always makes me smile when a horse from a smaller stable beats one of the two big ones you mentioned.
Both trainers have about 20% striking rate, this means they lose 80% of their races and these 80% go to others.August 27, 2007 at 21:44 #112657strawbearParticipant
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seems a bit harsh marb to say jonjo’s cocked up. afterall, at the worlds greatest and most competitive racing festival this year he had 3 winners and 2 seconds winning over Ã‚Â£200k in prize money, thats without 2 other big guns in don’t push it and bjk completing thier races.
give him the tools and he can do the job, remember lingo winning the greatwood hurdle couple of years back, what pressure he must have been under knowing the owner and boss was having Ã‚Â£100k on it.August 27, 2007 at 21:56 #112659FriggoMember
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I don’t think Jonjo does a bad job for JP, I can’t think of any horses that performed woefully short of their potential for him wearing the green & gold. Although that being said, of the 5 horses to make most prize money for Mr McManus in the last 5 years, Jonjo only trained one!
Personally, I think Wichita Lineman will be seen as a good indicator, as IMO it’s one of the most talented McManus horses that Jonjo has had at his disposal. Up to now he’s seldom had the cream of the stable; Istabraq, First Gold, Baracouda etc.August 27, 2007 at 22:00 #112660cormack15Keymaster
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Harsh on both I’d say.
A list of Suroor’s winners would read impressively while Jonjo has a decent enough record when it counts. Both have had their problems, both seem like genuinely nice men and both have engendered the loyalty and continued support of owners who are no mugs.
True, they may not be in the O’Brien/Stoute/Cecil or Winter/Dickinson/Nicholls leagues but neither are failures by any stretch.August 28, 2007 at 00:16 #112672LibrettistMember
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Suroor is just a front man for someone else pulling the strings behind the scenes. It was fine when it was Jeremy Noseda pulling those strings…August 28, 2007 at 01:02 #112675CavParticipant
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If I was JP I’d have some interesting questions to ask my bloodstock agent, but I’m not and maybe theres a reason for it all?August 28, 2007 at 04:22 #112676TheCheeksterMember
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I dont think Jonjo’s the problem, more the horses.
They seem to be everywhere, in every race. I cant think of another ‘big’ owner that has so many running in moderate races, on moderate tracks.
I remember being pleasantly surprised by Jonjo’s stats the other day, for so far this season. They compare very favourably with the rest of the top 10.August 28, 2007 at 09:52 #112693
Agree with that. Cant see what JP gets out of it. Unless its simply a way of pouring money into a sport he loves. Compared with say, Trevor hemmings approach, its an odd oneAugust 28, 2007 at 10:09 #112698robnorthParticipant
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I’m really not keen on these posts that ask us to make a negative judgement. Surely it would have been better to ask ‘Have Jonjo and Saeed let down their owners?’. At least the we are able make up our minds. Either start the thread under a statement, i.e. this is my opinion, or ask a question for which the answer is agree or disagree.
I think JP McManus has so many horse that ultimately a fair percentage will turn out to be ordinary. Judging by the spread of races his horses appear in then he appears to be trying to cover all the bases. I don’t think Jonjo O’Neill does badly given the material he’s given.
Considering the money splashed around by Goldolphin, maybe their success level proves that it’s not all about chucking money at the game. Their success level will reflect the fact that bin Suroor’s horses are consistently competing at a higher level than most trainers.
RobAugust 28, 2007 at 10:30 #112701robnorthParticipant
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Agree Rob, PM admin and i’ll be happy for them to change the title for you and anyone else that wants it changed. I started the thread because I believe they’ve both underperformed in their own ways. It’s easy to pick out a few good Jonjo winners, gees horses like Sudden Shock and Intersky Falcon come to mind, but there’s been plenty of horses thats not lived up to their ability or star billing, just look at the likes of Garde Champetre and Iris’s Gift!
I think you are very harsh regarding Iris’s Gift, a horse which had a superb record over hurdles. That one went chasing at it was perhaps seen as ‘the way to go’ and even then wasn’t a bad chaser.
Incidentally I remember being at Perth a few years back when Ben Hitchcott was asked to pick out a horse to follow for the next season. He picked the then ‘useful bumper winner’ Iris’s Gift. It turned out to be a sound choice.
RobAugust 28, 2007 at 10:46 #112702thedarkknightParticipant
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Spotlight Verdict: Only a two runner race but a fascinating betting heat nonetheless. With many expensive hurdlers achieving next to nothing (other than a fews Ps in the formbook) at Jackdaws Castle, Jonjo O’Neill is sure to be a popular choice with punters. His handling of the top class Black Jack Ketchum last season will have left no-one in any doubt as to what he is (or indeed isn’t) capable of when getting a really good horse. Preference however is for Saeed Bin Suroor (NAP). Once transferred into Godolphin blue, a previously talented and exciting throroughbred can expect to remain off the track, injured, for around 800 days before confirming that it doesn’t retain much of its ability in some "sheikhs-only" sand race at Nad Al Sheba. The occasional Group 1 win from the billions of pounds worth of investment shouldn’t cloud the issue and Bin Suroor rates as a maximum bet here. (TDK)August 28, 2007 at 11:05 #112704August 28, 2007 at 11:51 #112706GrasshopperParticipant
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Nice one, TDK.
In JP’s case, the achilles heel of the operation would appear to be Fran Berry. Not since the days of Bazalgette, has so much cash been spent on so much shi*te.August 28, 2007 at 13:40 #112728
Suroor is just a front man for someone else pulling the strings behind the scenes. It was fine when it was Jeremy Noseda pulling those strings…
It’s true, the sheiks make the final decisions and if Suroor wasn’t a good trainer he would be fired very quickly.August 28, 2007 at 14:10 #112730
BTW Discreet Cat is set for his comeback…
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