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.
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All this in spite of the evidence in the report quoted by Pinza that
no horse has suffered discomfort or pain, physical or behavioural, through wealing, for THE LAST THREE YEARS.
Unfortunately that is not true Sean.
For example, Jason Maguire was banned for causing minor weals to Cool Mission on Feb 23rd. An offence that almost stopped the jockey taking his ride on Peddler’s Cross in the Grand National.
Value Is EverythingYou mean Ballabriggs of course. Can only agree with what sean said about injuries to jockeys [haven’t heard how Isabel is getting on at the moment]. There are far more important issues withing racing to be dealt with, most of which are not ‘lets sort this out overnight’ things that need long term research and [with the whip issue] training issues..looking at how horses are taught to race and how jockeys are taught to ride them.
Pinza , I will go further , it is my opinion , that the real core of Mr Muir’s agenda is to get rid of jump racing entirely
I am dismayed that Corm cannot and will not see it , more importantly as he is the owner of this racing forum ..and that’s a contradiction for sure
I am delighted that Ginger is seeing the picture now … Steeplechasing has gone a bit quiet as well,
The Bha and the inept PJA has played along , but now the dawning of the truth is coming to the surface , perhaps racing can fight back and tell this guy to take a hike , and mind his own affairs , believe me they are in no position to take any action against racing , as they are cash strapped in the extreme
Sorry Kevin Darley , likeable man , admirable in many ways , but you messed up on this one , but there is still a chance to redeem , ie , a full on all out strike , will sort this for all time
Lets get it over with please
Ricky
- Total Posts 17716
All this in spite of the evidence in the report quoted by Pinza that
no horse has suffered discomfort or pain, physical or behavioural, through wealing, for THE LAST THREE YEARS.
Unfortunately that is not true Sean.
For example, Jason Maguire was banned for causing minor weals to Cool Mission on Feb 23rd. An offence that almost stopped the jockey taking his ride on Peddler’s Cross in the Grand National.
Ginger
, you are confusing two different things (aside from the Grand National and Champion Hurdle!)
Seanryan
is quoting me, and I was quoting directly from the
BHA REVIEW ITSELF
.
The REVIEW makes a distinction between "minor weals" (i.e. raised marks, of which you cite one of 20 instances from 90000 or so runners) and a more serious incident causing physical or mental
suffering
. What the REVIEW states clearly about the latter, is that no
horse has suffered
for
at least the last three years
(i.e. whilst the veterinary inspections have been in place).
I hope that clarifies what we’re talking about.
- Total Posts 17716
Pinza , I will go further , it is my opinion , that the real core of Mr Muir’s agenda is to get rid of jump racing entirely
It’s now very clear that he is working towards abolition of the whip, but I’m less sure what his intentions are towards NH Racing after he’s achieved that aim.
If
Steeplechasing
doesn’t mind more quotation from his blog interview, here’s a couple of things Mr Muir had to say on this point:
“I can never see a situation where the RSPCA would support a call for the banning of National Hunt racing in Britain. Remember, what we are about is the prevention of cruelty and the definition of cruelty is ‘the gratuitous application of pain for the enjoyment of the person who’s doing it’. Now where in racing does the term ‘cruel’ fit? Tragic? Yes. Cruel? I can’t see that. The RSPCA does not try to justify the deaths of racehorses, but we will work tirelessly to reduce them. It’s a high risk sport and the RSPCA’s position in it is to help make it as risk-free as possible”.
This is the "velvet gloved" Muir: no ban calls from RSPCA – and in truth such a call would do his organisation a lot of harm. But there’s some vagueness about how he intends working towards making a
"high risk sport" "as risk-free as possible"
. This allows ambiguity about his ultimate intentions.
And then, in his recent statements he allows the phrase
"horse welfare has to come first"
to imply that there is some cruelty going on with the whip at least, without actually saying so. This is the way he leverages his position to gain power, whilst claiming to be 100% behind the sport.
Another interesting comment:
"For example, I’m working closely at the moment on a hurdle design project with students at Southampton University, which is due to finish next month. For a year we’ve been looking at hurdle design. Along with four graduates, we’ve been examining design to see if we can improve safety in hurdling and reduce fatalities. I’m not in racing simply to criticise, I’m there to work with those involved to try to improve things”
So he works in some consultative capacity on a
"design project"
with
"students"
. I can’t find anything about this on the Southampton Uni. site, but there was this article a couple of years ago slipped in by Muir to
Marcus Townend
of the Daily Mail:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/racing … ality.html
This makes clear that Muir was working with
engineering students
(who had even less professional expertise in equine welfare than he himself) on hinged, stiff hurdles:
"He says that would make racing hurdles react more like those used in athletics which are knocked over when clobbered"
Hmm. From the silence that’s fallen on this front, I guess it’s dead in the water. There are elements of Muir which say
"English Eccentric"
rather than
"Racing Professional"
and this hurdles initiative is one of them. But he’s proved none the less dangerous for that. And to entrust him with securing the future of NH Racing is, at the very best, wishful thinking.
It is clearly time for the Sport to move on without his "help".
Moehat, please don’t be taken in by all this.
The idea that the RSPCA want NH Racing banned is the last stand from the ‘End of the Worlders, Hat Jumpers, et al. All of which are happy to see a Throughbred Racehorse beaten with the whip to win a race because it enhances their enjoyment of the sport…
It’s alarmist nonsense…the RSPCA
can’t
do away with NH racing.
In six months time everything will be going along nicely, Pinza will still be jumping up and down on his hat and praying for a jocks strike, but no one will be taking any notice.
It’s not the RSPCA, the animal rights people or the tabloid newspapers that are making me think these things; I won’t bore everyone again with my views on the RSPCA. What I don’t understand is that a year ago people within racing weren’t bemoaning the fact that jockeys used whips, so where did it all spring from? I said a while ago that I felt that nh racing would eventually return to it’s roots, and I still feel that is the case. Perhaps this all started with the ban on foxhunting? Where are we going with our homogenised, sanitised society where the only adrenalin rush any of us ever get is playing games on a computer? Do we home in on things like whip issues so we don’t have to think about a world where people are starving, killing each other and animals are becoming extinct on a daily basis?
Moehat, that is a very interesting post that should makes us all reflect upon our views.
In response, all I would suggest is that Racing, like any other sport, can’t operate in some form of isolation from the REAL world, as much as the ‘End of the Worlder’s and Hat Jumpers’ would like them to do.
And, make no mistake, it is Pinza and Kingfisted et al that will do away the sport we all love…follow them and follow the end of racing as we know it.
Trying to implement unworkable rules will do away with the sport. And that’s what’s happening.
And, make no mistake, it is Pinza and Kingfisted et al that will do away the sport we all love…follow them and follow the end of racing as we know it.
Pete,i want Horseracing to survive more than anyone because i love it,i just wish it wasn’t being run by a bunch of utterly clueless incompetents who seem to think the general public give a monkeys about a bloody whip debate.The BHA have proved to us all that their 10 months of serious study has the same impact as ****** in the wind,the difference is Real people learn from it these clowns think because they have the higher ground they can dictate to us all as if we’re all sheep,admittedly some on here clearly are,’Pete the Sheep’,’Corm the Sheep’,’Eclipse the Sheep’….Baaah re mi.Fingers crossed for a proper Paddy Power Gold Cup still mind!
Kingfisted, as I proved the other day both myself and The Boss have been very consistent about this issue for at least the last five years.
So, as you are a decent man I fully expect you to apoloigise to both myself and the boss….as we are no sheep followers….
So, as you are a decent man I fully expect you to apoloigise to both myself and the boss….as we are no sheep followers….
Sorry Pete! I am ashamed of myself for ‘suggesting’ you have had relations with a Sheep….following them could be construed as a pastime though!
All this in spite of the evidence in the report quoted by Pinza that
no horse has suffered discomfort or pain, physical or behavioural, through wealing, for THE LAST THREE YEARS.
Unfortunately that is not true Sean.
For example, Jason Maguire was banned for causing minor weals to Cool Mission on Feb 23rd. An offence that almost stopped the jockey taking his ride on Peddler’s Cross in the Grand National.
Ginger
, you are confusing two different things (aside from the Grand National and Champion Hurdle!)
Seanryan
is quoting me, and I was quoting directly from the
BHA REVIEW ITSELF
.
The REVIEW makes a distinction between "minor weals" (i.e. raised marks, of which you cite one of 20 instances from 90000 or so runners) and a more serious incident causing physical or mental
suffering
. What the REVIEW states clearly about the latter, is that no
horse has suffered
for
at least the last three years
(i.e. whilst the veterinary inspections have been in place).
I hope that clarifies what we’re talking about.
Very aware of the distinction and what you both were commenting on Pinza.
Minor weals are weals. I was commenting on the sentence quoted by Seanryan, nothing else. Realise the two posts were about a more severe injury, but it was the words that (imo) gave a misleading impression. The words used did not (imo) give the full "truth".I can’t see how minor weals do not "cause physical suffering" anyway, albeit in a minor way.
Sorry, did not realise I’d said Grand National.
You knew what I meant anyway (in that sentence at least).Value Is EverythingLets park minor major a think about what the outcome we all want . Do the new rules and penalties reduce the likelihood of horses being marked ? I doubt it .
I wrote to Ch4 years ago because I was concerned that one trainer in particular was putting a rug on his horses at the end of every race and I thought it was to hide any marks
. I think it was after a King George when the horse I backed came second to what seemed a rather brutal ride given to the winner. It was a long time ago and the horse I backed was probably a doubtful stayer
. They don’t rug horses up after a race any more, do they? Is that the reason? Does anyone remember the years when The Fellow never won the Gold Cup, one reason being that his owner didn’t like the whip being used? The application of blinkers worked.
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