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I disagree that he was ‘going like the winner’ until he hit that fence. He hit the fence very early and they were all travelling at that time.
Yes but when Kautos "travelling" the rest had better beware.
The mistake knocked him for 6…just look at the difference in him after it.
I’m not saying it didn’t, I’m just saying that he wasn’t travelling any better than at least half a dozen of the others at the time so he could hardly have been called the winner at that point by any stretch.
I’m not saying it didn’t, I’m just saying that he wasn’t travelling any better than at least half a dozen of the others at the time so he could hardly have been called the winner at that point by any stretch.
I suppose you couldnt but what im meaning is do you think hed have emptied so quickly and lost his place had the blunder not happened? imo Denman never performed any better than he did last year….and Kauto treated him with disdain.
I.c imo took advantage of Kautos misfortune…nothing more but thats racing.
I also feel that the over the top celebrations by Brennan,NTD etc may come back and bite them on the archie.
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Ignore Paddy Brennan,
he has a tendancy for going OTT and loosing his head a bit.
I remember when Ollie Magern won a poor Charlie Hall, he was interviewed after the race and said "This is the best horse I have ever ridden and will probably ever ride, hes the best here is"
Now dont get me wrong Ollie Magern was a good little horse but to use them comments was a bit OTT.
Kauto didn’t have a misfortune – he made a jumping mistake, something that he’s prone to (or has been in the past). You’ve got to jump as well as gallop to win a Gold Cup.
As for Brennan and co. celebratig. They’d just won one of the greatest prizes in racing (well, the jumping side of the game at any rate). You could hardly begrudge them a bit of an OTT celebration surely to goodness.
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I definitely dont begrudge them but I do think Paddy Brennan goes OTT.
He also claimed Twiston Davies is the best trainer there is to work for. Perhaps this was just excitement but I would think you wouldnt need to work for a few more than he has to make such a statement…
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Arkle was more consistent than Kauto is. Apart from that I’d say that neither is "better" than the other.
What an odd thing to say
I’m as sure as one can be Kauto Star is the best chaser since Arkle.
What sets him apart for me is his ability to win at various distances because of this instant turn of foot he has.
However he has been beaten too many times to even think of him being on a par with te great horse.
What he has done is put up a display in the 2008 King George that was on a par with what Arkle did in all his Grade 1 wins.
In a sense what you are saying makes no sense but in a way makes sense but it’s doing it consistantly that sets Arkle apart from them all.
Someone asks how do you know Arkle was better? After this years Gold Cup that’s a very silly question.
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Let’s be realistic.
Kauto Star will not win another Cheltenham Gold Cup, and neither will Denman.
You can bet your life on it.
…..agreed 100% and those who compared him to Arkle should hang their heads in shame.
Nothing I hate more than posts with no substance to them.
Why would anyone in their right mind write off Kauto Star because he made 2 blunders in a race?
Ruby said his first mistake completely knocked the stuffing out of him but there he was right up there fighting when he came down.
I’ve never seen Kauto quit and had he stood up he would in my mind given Imperial Commander a lot more to think about than Denman did.
It’s not like he was travelling badly he was hacking at the time he made that mistake. He still managed to draw gasps from the crowd witha brilliant jump a few fences late that would have put the great Mill House to shame.
A mistake and one fall doesn’t keep a brilliant horse like Kauto Star down. Ruby reckons the horse couldn’t give a flying raspberry bush about it and was dawdling away like nothing happened.
Kauto Star has already proved how tough he can be and how little falling bothers him so on what grounds do you guys come to the conclusion winning, what is just another race, is beyond him?
If you are going to come up with such garbage at least back it up with something worth reading.
And don’t be taking the hump with me I am just saying it as I see it.
Kauto didn’t have a misfortune – he made a jumping mistake, something that he’s prone to (or has been in the past). You’ve got to jump as well as gallop to win a Gold Cup.
As for Brennan and co. celebratig. They’d just won one of the greatest prizes in racing (well, the jumping side of the game at any rate). You could hardly begrudge them a bit of an OTT celebration surely to goodness.
OK Then I.C in my opinion won the race because of a bit of good fortune.
OK then if PN wins the gold cup next year with say…Kauto for example……will he then run about sticking sly digs into I.C etc?
I dont think so either.
Yes you cant grudge them their moment in the spotlight….but thats what sets Ruby,AP etc apart imo from the likes of brennan…a bit of class.
All imo of course.
I never actually saw Arkle in the flesh so i cant say for sure….but why cant younger racing fans think Kauto etc is the best without being shot down over akle this and arkle that?
rant over
I wonder if, back in the 60s, Arkle fans had to put up with people going ‘there’s no way he’s better than Cottage Rake’ and, the 40s, Cottage Rake fans had to listen to people saying ‘he would have been beaten by Golden Miller any day of the week’?
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Fist, Ruby Walsh said that Kauto Star was never travelling after he clattered that fence. Even to the un trained eye it was evident that he was not moving with any great fluency. He may, as you say ( who knows ) have made a race of it had he not fallen – but it is my opinion that he would still not have beaten the winner.
Kauto Star will be eleven come Cheltenham 2011. The stats alone are against him re-gaining his Gold Cup crown. He may still be up to taking another King George in December, given his love for the easy three miles round Kempton but, don’t let sentiment blight your reasoning; if you truly believe he will be the force of old come Cheltenham next year ( should he make it there ), then good luck to you and happy punting. I just happen to think it would be a Gold Cup too far.
Also to Dalry Bear:
No need to defend Arkle’s position at the top of the chasing tree or his superiority over Kauto Star. It’s all there in black and white – speaking of which… come on St. Mirren !
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"fivelongdays":317cdnqk wrote:
I wonder if, back in the 60s, Arkle fans had to put up with people going ‘there’s no way he’s better than Cottage Rake’ and, the 40s, Cottage Rake fans had to listen to people saying ‘he would have been beaten by Golden Miller any day of the week’?
I was lucky enough to see Arkle a couple of times incl his Gallacher Gold Cup win and most if not all his chases on TV, I honestly don’t recall anyone suggesting Golden Miller would beat him, he was a total freak, so far ahead he seemed to be a different breed, won Gold Cups in the manner that Kauto or Denman would win a selling plate at Hexham beating Mill House in the process who was no mug. I can only recall jumping error in his entire career when he was showboating in from of the grandstand in his second or third Gold Cup, he didn’t see the fence as he was looking at the crowd, went straight though it but didn’t bat an eyelid.
When he was beaten by Mill House in 1963 he slipped badly on landing, not a mistake as such.For what its worth Kauto Star is the best horse I have ever seen, Im 25 and therefore cant really comment on Arkle.
Before My dad said that I had him down as a true great, but it just got me thinking that maybe you have to successfully defend at the festival to be a true great, i.e be talked about in 50 years time..
I see you’ve named yourself after the new darling of Irish NH racing. The best looking horse in training. No question.
I’m three years older than yourself, Joncol, and Kauto Star is the best horse I’ve seen in nearly twenty years following the sport.
I disagree with your father. I think too much emphasis is placed on Cheltenham – it’s like the last five or six months have been meaningless!
I watched Boycie and Twister’s conversing on ATR yesterday, both appearing to think that winning the Gold Cup now entitles Imperial Commander to be recognized as the best staying chaser in the country. Absolute nonsense. Imperial Commander wins one race this season and that suddenly makes him the best in the country. You couldn’t make it up.
Kauto has set new standards in the sport of National Hunt racing. He was the first horse to regain the Gold Cup and win four consecutive King Georges. Anyone who uses stats to support their view that Kauto can’t / won’t win the Gold Cup next year should realise that Kauto has made of habit of tearing that book to shreds.
Did someone say that Kauto has been beaten far too many times to be compared to Arkle? Of the twenty-one races he’s completed on these shores, Kauto has won sixteen of them over varying trips, conditions and course.
Again, I’m not comparing the two, but that assumption is just plain wrong.
Here’s one for everyone: Kauto Vs Arkle. Two miles. Sandown.
Im pretty confident in my view that kauto was still searching for the effortless rhythm that he usually has during his races BEFORE he hit the first fence. I was there, and it’s how I saw it. IC travelled better than any horse in the race pretty much from the 2nd circuit. I dont feel we will see enough from Kauto to win another GC but I would love it if he did. 2 more King Georges look very much the possibility though.
The most weight carried by Kauto Star in a race is 11st 10lbs. I think he’s competed in two or three limited handicaps during his chasing career.
He has run three times this season and only looked a class act in one race. He was given a rest between then and the Gold Cup, because Paul Nicholls said he was better when fresh, and asserted that he was in tip top condition – hence why I backed the horse to win at Cheltenham.
I am no mystic, but I’m quite certain that we have have now seen the best of Kauto Star.
I will quite happily chew on humble pie for a year and a day should the poor man’s Arkle (
) prove me wrong. 
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I never actually saw Arkle in the flesh so i cant say for sure….but why cant younger racing fans think Kauto etc is the best without being shot down over akle this and arkle that?
rant over
I wonder if, back in the 60s, Arkle fans had to put up with people going ‘there’s no way he’s better than Cottage Rake’ and, the 40s, Cottage Rake fans had to listen to people saying ‘he would have been beaten by Golden Miller any day of the week’?
My Grandfather used to tell me great stories about Golden Miller but he was Arkle’s biggest fan. The Arkle fan club extended well beyond those who were around in 1934 to see Golden Miller run. It wasn’t really something that was open to discussion "Arkle" It was pretty much unanimous that he was the greatest steeplechaser of all time.
There would have been people who thought differently but they would have been better of going to a Beatles concert to tell their fans during Twist and Shout that the Batchelors were the best group in the world.
Very hard to imagine if you weren’t there but the horse filled everyone with confidence and defeat was out of the question. The horse was like a god and when it came to the Gold Cup you certainly weren’t on tenderhooks waiting to see what happens next like you are with Kauto.
You can make a case for saying horses like Best Mate Kauto Star Desert Orchid were as good but getting someone from that era to agree is like peeing in the wind.
No matter which racing of the older journalist or racing pundit you read or listen to you will very often read or hear them say "he could be the best since Arkle" but never have I seen or heard the words better than Arkle.
If someone did come away with an article or voiced the opinion that Kauto was better than Arkle among the older racing fans the best reponse they could expect is a Hmmmm!!! a shake of the head and a change of subject because they would regard you as stone mad.
My advice to anyone who wants to come away with any such silly statements is wait until Jonjo is 115 years old and by that time there will be no one around to argue with you.
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The most weight carried by Kauto Star in a race is 11st 10lbs. I think he’s competed in two or three limited handicaps during his chasing career.
He has run three times this season and only looked a class act in one race. He was given a rest between then and the Gold Cup, because Paul Nicholls said he was better when fresh, and asserted that he was in tip top condition – hence why I backed the horse to win at Cheltenham.
I am no mystic, but I’m quite certain that we have have now seen the best of Kauto Star.
I will quite happily chew on humble pie for a year and a day should the poor man’s Arkle (
) prove me wrong. I wouldn’t disagree we have seen the best of him but he so superior to anything around he could regress by 7lbs and still beat them all when he’s right and doesn’t fall over his own feet.
I said in a pre-race post I thought he showed signs of losing a bit of his instant acceleration at Haydock and he probably has but he still travels better than any chaser in the country. Kauto’s as tough as old boots and could go on for another 3 years and still win King George’s unless something comes up through the ranks. I doubt if he’ll lose 30 lengths in performance and I don’t see what going to improve enough to bother him.
He looked fantastic in the Gold Cup until the blunder and even after it he looked to be booked for at least 2nd as he was still going forward while everything else was under pressure and Denman was already running foot to the floor.
If Kauto wins the 2011 race don’t worry about the cost of buying the humble pie "H". The Champion Hurdle is run before the Gold Cup. If Binocular wins I’ll pay for it and if he gets stuffed you can have a slice of mines.
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