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  • #4018
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    I received this as an e-mail the other day and can’t quite make up my mind whether it’s; offensive, racist or common sense. Is this view valid? If it’s not valid then why not? I personally don’t have a problem with it myself, but I am as always open minded.

    Australia – The Right to Leave<br>Our Country – YOU Have the right – the right to leave !<br>After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas<br>lights. After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and<br>let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver’s license with her<br>face covered.

    This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen.<br>Published in an Australian newspaper.

    Quote:

    IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It<br>I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some<br>individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we<br>have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

    However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the<br>"politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility<br>that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration,<br>nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by<br>coming to Australia.

    However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to<br>our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

    This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only<br>to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we<br>have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own<br>lifestyle.

    This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials<br>and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

    We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,<br>Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part<br>of our society, Learn the language!

    "In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian,<br>right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian<br>men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this<br>is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on<br>the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you<br>consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is<br>part of<br>our culture.

    If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don’t like " A Fair Go",<br>then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this<br>planet.

    We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, And we<br>really don’t care how you did things where you came from.

    This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you<br>every opportunity to enjoy all this.

    But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag,<br>Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage<br>you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

    "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".

    If you aren’t happy here then f#@* off! We didn’t force you to come<br>here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.<br>Pretty easy really, when you think about it! <br>

    #93234
    stevedvg
    Member
    • Total Posts 1137

    Some thoughts:

    Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights

    That’s just daft.

    I’m not christian but I like christmas lights and I’m sure most muslims in the UK like them too.

    When I lived in Paris, I went along to the Chinese new year celebrations and dragon parade. And there was a big mix of races there to enjoy the spectacle.  

    I can’t think of a single reason why one part of society celebrating it’s culture in a positive way (whether it’s a religious festival or something like gay pride), is to the detriment of the rest of society.  

    (BTW I’m excluding things with a "nasty" edge such as orange walks)  

    IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It

    Is that the same deal the Aussies accepted from the Aborigines?

    This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.

    Surely the arrival of the whites created a multicultural society?

    As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle.

    I think this is a very "anglo-saxon" rewriting of Autralia’s history.

    if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!

    Good advice for anyone who has moved to a country with a different language and wants to get the most out of the experience.

    That also applies to Aussies who move to Europe. The number of Aussies I met who lived in Paris but never tried to speak the language….

    "In God We Trust" is our National Motto…..It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools."

    Personally, I believe religion and the state should be kept separate. And that must mean that it should be kept out of the state schools too.  

    However, that’s the national slogan and I don’t see why people of other monotheistic faiths have to read it as "in the christian god, we trust" rather than "in allah we trust" (or whatever).

    Over here we’ve got "god save the queen" which for an agnostic republican like me is pretty much meaningless. But each to his own.  

    Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation

    I thought criminals founded their nation. And those criminals were there for breaking the laws of Britain which were based on teh 10 commandments (thou shalt not steal etc).

    Don’t sound like very good christians to me…

    " A Fair Go"

    What’s "a fair go"? It beats the motto of Lanarkshire, which is " a square go".

    We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, And we really don’t care how you did things where you came from.

    No desire to change? Really????

    So, when another country invents a faster PC, they’ve no interest in using it? Or any other invention?

    That’s pretty stupid. Change happens all the time and cultures are constantly learning from each other.

    It seems to me that the writer wants to freeze-frame Australia in some idyllic time when Aussie culture was where he wanted it to be (white, anglo-saxon and christian). Personally, I doubt that that’s been any time in the last 50 years, if it was any time at all.

    I think it’s pretty sad.

    And pretty hypocritical given the way Aussies hold onto their own culture in this country.

    Steve

    (Edited by stevedvg at 1:11 pm on July 26, 2005)

    #93237
    Purwell
    Participant
    • Total Posts 657

    I didn’t realise that Australians spoke English.

    #93238
    ACR1
    Member
    • Total Posts 64

    "The right to leave" must be a new concept. I don’t think it was enjoyed by the many thousands sent there on prison ships.

    #93239
    Meshaheer
    Member
    • Total Posts 486

    Personally I don’t see any problem with the article, mainly because I agree with it (more in the context of this country really). We’ve had the whole banning of Christmas lights/cards/plays etc here as well and it’s just completely ridiculous. Sometimes I think the PC lobby say these things are "offensive" just to stir things up, because I doubt most minority cultures really take offence to these things (and if they do it’s their problem IMHO).

    #93240
    non vintage
    Member
    • Total Posts 1268

    What is this? Looks like a lame excuse to post some fundamentally racist right-wing clap-trap to me…

    Each to their own, Dave!

    Nice to see our resident Tory Tori rising to the challenge though!!!

    :)

    #93242
    Dungheap
    Member
    • Total Posts 113

    Whilst not supporting the "racist right-wing clap-trap to me" as NV so eloquently puts it. I do think that in some ways, there is an arguement for immigrants being given an "induction" to the country they arrive in. I believe France do this, teaching them french, french culture and history. This seems logical to me, allowing the immigrants to intergrate faster and to have an input into society faster. However, I do not think it is a "magic wand" that would solve all the problems. I do think that the major rather than the minor onus is on the immegrant/s integrating rather than transferring their total culture some of which can be at odds with their destination country.

    #93243
    Andrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    While we’re at it, I think it might be a good idea to educate some of the people who were born and bred here about the history/culture of the country they so glibly state they are proud of. For example, many ‘English’ people would cite Shakespeare as part of the culture they are proud of, yet would be unable to recall the names of all but a handful of his plays. Recent polls indicate a frightening number of people were entirely unaware of Lord Nelson or the battle of Trafalgar.  It astonishes me that there are adults in this country who on the one hand loudly proclaim their allegience to English culture, but who have no idea what it means. Eastenders, reality tv shows, dodgy children’s books, fast food and American films does not constitute a culture, certainly not one worth preserving. I am all for immigrants being taught English and about the British democratic system, history and our cultural heritage (and we should point out that many immigrants are keen to do so) But first we have to ask ourselves some questions. Do we really want to preserve our heritage and what are we prepared to do about it?

    By the way, I am not talking about teenagers here. There are men and women I work with who are in their forties and fifties and who haven’t the foggiest idea about British history, literature, art, or how the institutions of this country work. Indeed, some of them seem only to have a passing familiarity with the English language. Yet ask them the latest storyline in Coronation Street or how much a Big Mac is and they’ll have no trouble.

    I suppose this is also a long winded way of asking what we mean by culture.

    #93244
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    non vintage Posted on 9:29 pm on July 27, 2005 <br>What is this? Looks like a lame excuse to post some fundamentally racist right-wing clap-trap to me…

    <br>Why do you believe that it’s fundamentally rascist right wing clap trap?

    #93246
    stevedvg
    Member
    • Total Posts 1137

    Aranalde

    The number of people in this country (white British, born & bred) who say things like "he’s went to the shops" astonishes me.

    And I’m not just talking about footballers.

    As for the history part, I was watching Big Brother a few weeks ago (I know, I know) and they had a quiz. Someone was asked when the 2ns World War was and she said "1966?".

    Steve

    #93247
    Andrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    Good examples Steve.

    I regularly drive past a pub that has recently started offering bed and breakfast. The landlord chose to advertise this diversification of his business with a large blackboard proudly proclaiming,  ‘Acomadashun here’. I kid you not. In this case, the issue is not that he has trouble spelling, but that he thinks it doesn’t matter.

    To your historical example, I would add a geographical one. Taken from The Weakest Link, via Private Eye:

    Anne Robinson: "The M27 links Southampton with which other south coast city?"<br>Contestant: "Leeds."

    The prosecution rests.

    #93248
    Dungheap
    Member
    • Total Posts 113

    It astonishes me that there are adults in this country who on the one hand loudly proclaim their allegience to English culture, but who have no idea what it means.

    Arndale I think you mean BRITISH culture and BRITISH history.

    #93249
    Andrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    Dungheap

    Actually, it has been my experience that it is the English who are most at fault (witness the feeble attempts to whip up St George’s Day fever every year in the media). I take your point, that of course, the words English and British are not interchangeable, though I would suggest that in the minds of many English people they are.

    But I’d be interested in your opinion on the wider subject of what exactly people mean when they talk about ‘culture’?

    #93250
    Dungheap
    Member
    • Total Posts 113

    this<br>culture

     ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚¢ noun 1 the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively. 2 a refined understanding or appreciation of this. 3 the customs, institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or group. 4 the cultivation of plants, breeding of animals, or production of cells or tissues. 5 a preparation of cells grown in an artificial medium containing nutrients.<br>

    #93251
    Andrew Hughes
    Member
    • Total Posts 1904

    Dungheap

    Thank you for that extract from your dictionary.

    I do think that in some ways, there is an arguement for immigrants being given an "induction" to the country they arrive in. I believe France do this, teaching them french, french culture and history. This seems logical to me, allowing the immigrants to intergrate faster and to have an input into society faster. However, I do not think it is a "magic wand" that would solve all the problems. I do think that the major rather than the minor onus is on the immegrant/s integrating rather than transferring their total culture some of which can be at odds with their destination country.

    You used the word ‘culture’ twice in that paragraph. I was merely enquiring, since the word ‘culture’ has been bandied about in this thread, what people mean when they talk about culture. Specifically, what aspects of British ‘culture’ would you expect immigrants to be made familiar with?

    (Edited by Aranalde at 3:26 pm on July 28, 2005)

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