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One thing that might also help is getting another stable jockey therefore having a little bit of continuity. I know TQ had his critics but at least you knew who was riding the Cecil horses generally. Nowadays it’s unbelievable the number of jocks that are being used.
I wouldn’t bother with a stable jockey, use the best available.
If Tom Queally doesn’t want the job, what’s the quality of jockey likely to be, that will accept the job? Lots of owners won’t want a low quality jockey riding their horses even if he is stable jockey, if Ryan Moore, Frankie etc are sat in the weighing room.
Fair point that coupled with Jamie Doyle being the retained as the Juddmonte jockey it’s unlikely that the stable jockey is going to have many big race rides.
Just thought as Warren Place has seen huge changes this year continuity might help Lady C find her feet.
She has only had 3 two year old winners and there seems a lack of talent amongst the juveniles.
The stable website still talks of Sir Henry in the present tense and I am not sure she is doing enough to really promote herself. I know she hates the limelight but she is now the boss so she has to.
I hope this is a just an end of season blip but I worry that she will struggle. Next year will obviously be huge and it will be interesting to see what support she receives from Prince K.
Does anyone know what older horses are being kept in training at Warren Place? The likes of Noble Mission, Stipulate, Tiger Cliff, First Mohican. Also is the number of yearlings sent form Juddmonte up or down on previous years?
Just read Tiger Cliff and First Mohican have left Warren Place to join Alan King and wont be returning for next years flat season
Just read Tiger Cliff and First Mohican have left Warren Place to join Alan King and wont be returning for next years flat season
No need to worry about those two. That was always the plan. I remember Henry Ponsonby being interviewed on TV in the Summer, and him saying then that those two would be going to Alan King. Also, in previous years, once one of his syndicate horses has moved to its National Hunt trainer it does not go back to its old flat trainer. If they fancy a short flat campaign the horse always stays with the NH trainer.
The big test for Lady Cecil will be the allocation of Prince Khaled Abdulla’s horses. Will the likes of Venue, Retirement Plan, Disclaimer and Hot Snap come back. Most telling of all will be the allocation of two year olds. Will there be the normal Warren Place allocation? Will Lady Cecil go to the “back of the the queue” for the Juddmonte horses. Or will there be none at all?
Ed Walker is moving his string into Warren Place:-
http://www.edwalkerracing.com/news/read … -0310.aspxJust read Tiger Cliff and First Mohican have left Warren Place to join Alan King and wont be returning for next years flat season
No need to worry about those two. That was always the plan. I remember Henry Ponsonby being interviewed on TV in the Summer, and him saying then that those two would be going to Alan King. Also, in previous years, once one of his syndicate horses has moved to its National Hunt trainer it does not go back to its old flat trainer. If they fancy a short flat campaign the horse always stays with the NH trainer.
The big test for Lady Cecil will be the allocation of Prince Khaled Abdulla’s horses. Will the likes of Venue, Retirement Plan, Disclaimer and Hot Snap come back. Most telling of all will be the allocation of two year olds. Will there be the normal Warren Place allocation? Will Lady Cecil go to the “back of the the queue” for the Juddmonte horses. Or will there be none at all?
Read on the bastion of truth that is facebook
that Venue has left Warren Place and Hot Snap and Morpheus are off to Bill Mott in the US
It is likely that any horses going to Bill Mott will not be a problem. They will be the normal Juddmonte decision that some horses might have a better chance of Group race success in the USA. Over the years, plenty trained by Sir Henry found their way to Bobby Frankel and latterly Bill Mott. Horses from the other UK, Ireland and France trainers regularly take that journey too. Nearly three weeks ago John Gosden sent Seek Again over to win the Group 1 Hollywood Derby, and it was immediately announced that the horse would stay in the USA with Bill Mott.
Venue was entered in Tattersalls recent Horses in Training sale as Lot 1146, but was withdrawn. Maybe they have received a private offer for him, from Australia perhaps; Sound of Nature and Jet Away went in that direction, and Venue is the type of horse from the UK that seems to appeal to Australian buyers. It would be a concern if any of the Juddmonte 2013 horses at Warren Place were transferred to another UK trainer, but so far there has been no news of that.
For fans of the stable, at least those who have no reliable contacts at Warren Place, it is a nuisance not knowing what is going on in the background. But the news of those named horses moving out of the stable seem to be par for the course in any normal year. It would be quite normal to expect that quite a few other three and four year olds left at the end of the season.
Patience is a virtue, so they say. I just wish that Juddmonte would hurry up and announce something!
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I think it’s none of our business what happens next at Warren Place. The man of the house is deceased, leave his widow be. The show is over nothing to see here.
It seems your show is over too Matthew,
as previously. Henry Cecil lies in
a peaceful state and you are now a ghost.
Have you thought to look around Warren Place ?Your rash postings and threads were far
too personal. I quite enjoyed the shoot
out at 2am though. I am a great fan of
High Noon but your acting wasn’t quite the
calibre of Gary Cooper and he never
threw a knife
You put up some nice horse pictures
the one of Dessie was exceptional and
suitable for adorning this site on the
header page. I know how painful it is to
be shut out of this forum, as I have
experienced this. Farewell and a very
good Xmas to you.Patience is a virtue, so they say. I just wish that Juddmonte would hurry up and announce something!
This
I have just received my copy of Horses In Training 2014. As might have been expected there is some good news and some not-so-good news; but overall it is quite positive. The support from Khaled Abdullah’s Juddmonte organization looks quite strong, and there is good support from the Niarchos family also, and from several of the previous owners who habitually have one or two horses at Warren Place. But many of the other owners in that category have chosen not to continue at Warren Place. There are a few interesting new owners including Sheik Joaan Al Thani and Normandie Stud. Overall the total numbers are down from about 120 to 58.
All the Juddmonte horses that were in training at Warren Place last year, and are still in training in the UK, remain at Warren Place. None have moved to other UK/Ireland/France trainers. Noble Mission, Retirement Plan and Joyeuse are back, together with thirteen unraced and lightly-raced three-year-olds and four-year-olds. The currently listed number of Juddmonte two-year-olds is eight, down from twelve at the same stage last year. There are a few choicely bred two-year-olds that in other years would be at Warren Place but have been allocated to Sir Michael Stoute, John Gosden, Roger Charlton or Dermot Weld, which seems quite fair since they have demonstrated their great skills with Juddmonte horses over several years. It still leaves the Warren Place team with some good prospects to start to prove that they can continue to bring success to their loyal patrons, even if they no longer have the irreplaceable talents of Sir Henry available to them.
I wish them luck, and success.
Thanks for that MV. I haven’t received my copy yet but am interested to hear the numbers are so low. Hopefully the quality will make up for the quantity.
It goes without saying that this is a huge year for Warren Place. With the first Frankel foals due to be assigned next year it is vital that they show they can continue in similar vein to when the master was alive. Joyeuse gives me hope that they will have a top class horse to go to war with and Retirement Plan also looked a horse with a big future until his season was curtailed early.
Fingers crossed for a good season.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Thanks for that MV. I haven’t received my copy yet but am interested to hear the numbers are so low. Hopefully the quality will make up for the quantity.
It goes without saying that this is a huge year for Warren Place. With the first Frankel foals due to be assigned next year it is vital that they show they can continue in similar vein to when the master was alive. Joyeuse gives me hope that they will have a top class horse to go to war with and Retirement Plan also looked a horse with a big future until his season was curtailed early.
Fingers crossed for a good season.
Fingers and toes crossed here too joni
The number of horses being halved is a big worry though as you say hopefully it’s quality rather than quantity.
To be fair to Lady Cecil with the few runners she’s had during the winter she’s done reasonably well
During Sir Henry’s time it always seemed that the objective was to find Group class performers, and to favour horses that needed time to develop rather than precocious types. Sir Henry was one of many in the horse world to promote the three most important rules in training: Patience. Patience. Patience.
The majority of horses at Warren Place this season fit the established pattern. From a breeding perspective the following are just a quickly researched sample of those that seem to be the types that would normally be found at Warren Place.
Older horses
Shirocco gelding – from a half-sister to Katiyra, 3rd in 2008 Oaks, winner Blanford Stks G2, 3rd Prix de l’Opera G1.
Oasis Dream gelding – half brother to Jet Away, winner of £300,000 and 4th in G1 Caulfield Cup.
Medaglia d’Oro colt – half brother to two $500k winners, dam won Lowther G2, granddam won Coronation Stakes G1.
Cape Cross colt – out of Oaks winner, half brother to St Leger winner.
Cape Cross filly – out of half sister to St Leger winner.
Unbeaten Teofilo colt – big enough to be a Gold Cup winner – at Cheltenham! Lots of potential.
Galileo colt – full brother to the best horse in living memory.
Galileo filly – full sister to Irish 1000 Gns winner.
Monsun colt – half brother to Passage of Time and Timepeice, both G1 winners.
Sakhee gelding – dam out of Shiva, G1 winner, a half sister of Light Shift, Oaks winner.
Dansili filly – half sister to Multidimensional, G2 winner; dam 2nd in Yorkshire Oaks.Three Year Olds
Oasis Dream filly – cousin to Midday, out of half sister to Reams Of Verse, Fillies Mile and Oaks winner, Elmaamul, Eclipse & Irish Champion Stks winner.
Champs Elysees filly – half sister to Kind, Powerscourt, Riposte, Last Train.
Oasis Dream filly – out of Passage of Time, G1.
Dansili colt – out of half sister to First Defence, G1 in USA, family of Empire Maker, Belmont Stks winner.
Distorted Humor filly – half sister to Aruna (G1 $1million winner in USA)
Oasis Dream filly – half sister to the best horse in living memory.
Dynaformer colt – half brother to two $500k winners, dam won Lowther G2, granddam won Coronation Stks G1.
Oasis Dream filly – full sister to Midday.
Champs Elysees filly – out of a winning half sister to Showcasing and Camacho.
Sea The Stars colt – dam Love Divine, Oaks winner.Two Year Olds
Oasis Dream colt – half brother to Phoenix Tower.
Dansili colt – full brother to Passage Of Time G1, Father Time G2, half to Timepiece G1.
Halling colt – out of half sister to Steeler, 1st Royal Lodge, 2nd Racing Post Trophy
Afleet Alex (Preakness & Belmont winner) filly – out of three-time winner (inc listed) in France.
Oasis Dream filly – out of Light Shift, Oaks winner.
New Approach colt – out of half sister to Duncan, Irish St Leger, Prix Foy, Yorkshire Cup.
Bushranger filly – half sister to Belle Royale, G1 in USA.
Shamardal filly – out of half-sister to Etoile Montante, Prix de la Foret G1.
Indian Charlie (a top USA sire, $75,000 fee) colt – out of Visit, 3rd Sun Chariot, 2nd in two US G1sI think there is a reasonable amount of quality in there. The lower number of horses might be a blessing in disguise in this first full year of new people in new roles.
Older horses
Shirocco gelding – from a half-sister to Katiyra, 3rd in 2008 Oaks, winner Blanford Stks G2, 3rd Prix de l’Opera G1.
Oasis Dream gelding – half brother to Jet Away, winner of £300,000 and 4th in G1 Caulfield Cup.
Medaglia d’Oro colt – half brother to two $500k winners, dam won Lowther G2, granddam won Coronation Stakes G1.
Cape Cross colt – out of Oaks winner, half brother to St Leger winner.
Cape Cross filly – out of half sister to St Leger winner.
Unbeaten Teofilo colt – big enough to be a Gold Cup winner – at Cheltenham! Lots of potential.
Galileo colt – full brother to the best horse in living memory.
Galileo filly – full sister to Irish 1000 Gns winner.
Monsun colt – half brother to Passage of Time and Timepeice, both G1 winners.
Sakhee gelding – dam out of Shiva, G1 winner, a half sister of Light Shift, Oaks winner.
Dansili filly – half sister to Multidimensional, G2 winner; dam 2nd in Yorkshire Oaks.I don’t see the highly promising Retirement Plan there. Has he been moved to another stable or taken out of training?
I don’t see the highly promising Retirement Plan there. Has he been moved to another stable or taken out of training?
He is the "Monsun colt – half brother to Passage of Time and Timepiece, both G1 winners."
I did not want to just copy the Horses in Training list (copyright issue?), and also wanted to add information that indicated the class or potential of the horses involved.
Maybe I should have made it a tantilizing quiz: "Name that horse!", to give Warren Place followers a bit of fun (agony?) matching names to the descriptions.
I cannot be absolutely sure, but it appears that any Juddmonte horse that has left Warren Place since last season, has either gone to Bill Mott in the USA, or has otherwise disappeared from the UK Horses in Training list. I cannot find any that have gone to other Juddmonte trainers in Europe. I have noticed that Riposte has been placed twice in 9 furlong G3 races on firm going for Bill Mott this year. I guess someone has seen a different type of potential for her.
I also noticed that the 3yo "Dansili colt – out of half sister to First Defence, G1 in USA, family of Empire Maker, Belmont Stks winner" won on his debut at Lingfield yesterday for the Warren Place team. He is named Equitable. Four wins and three places from seven runners on the all-weather for the team in 2014 so far.
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