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I think some people overestimate how much knowledge and talent is required to be a trainer, lots of trainers just stumble along, you only have to listen to some of them interviewed or look at their placing of horses.
In recent days I have heard of very experienced and successful trainers not knowing what an auction race was or whether the QE2 in which they have a runner was run on the straight course at Ascot.
Since taking over the licence Lady Cecil’s percentage strike rate and return to a pound level stake are both better than any other trainer in the top 25 this season including Sir Henry.
I think you are both right. Of course anyone can train, but filling someone like Sir Henry’s shoes is going to be nigh on impossible since he had a rare almost unique intuition with horses. I think the strike rate reflects the good grounding that these horses have had. Whether that was Henry himself or MM, we don’t know. After that its pretty simple to enter a horse in a race. You just continue doing what has been done all season. Where it is going to impact though, is the buying of the yearlings, the nurturing and the decisions once you have made an assessment. Of course Godolphin often just wait until some other trainer has done all the hard work, then cherry pick the best. I’m not sure that’s my idea of good training however.
Whilst I did the training modules, I couldn’t believe the stupidity, ignorance and just plain lack of common sense by so many on each course. There was one guy who had been an owner (he was a car salesman, I believe, or possibly rumour had it, a loan shark) – well I have never seen someone so nervous around horses. He hadn’t a clue. He ended up training a pretty large number of winner but I know that he didn’t have a clue when it came to who should ride what at home and consequently never had any staff as the ambulance was there so often. But he had plenty of money so that made up for it – and presumably a half-decent head lad/assistant.
I would imagine that an important part of the job is keeping staff happy; happy staff = happy horses. Not as easy as it sounds.
Spot on, Moehat. As with any industry if you have staff that are happy and well-treated, your production level goes up. And its not always about the financial reward. Sometimes, all staff want is to be told they have done a great job with that horse and thanked. Or their opinion asked. The Trainers courses do have a staff management module. And its very good. Some excellent speakers are brought in both from the Racing Industry and outside. When I was on it there was some rather odd motivational stuff involving clothes pegs which I appreciate is possibly more suited to the real world!
However, there are still dyed in the wool people who think this is how it always was so still should be. I was speaking to a friend who now works for the NASS (National Association of Stable Staff) – a really excellent organisation now it has been restructured. For years it was run by a man who had zero interest in the staff he was supposed to be responsible for. He was in the job for 20 years and received an MBE for his services. He was utterly useless. He was eventually charged with the theft of £115,000! Anyway I digress. But staff were so poorly looked after under the old regime, it has taken a long time to get them to trust the NASS. The friend told me how despite every trainer receiving enormous amounts of legislation on employment, the abuse is still horrendous. They are getting so many calls on a daily basis with incredible stories. He was quick to point out he wouldn’t ever divulge names but he told me of a trainer who sacked a girl on her return from maternity leave. When challenged, he said she was now too fat. He was told to re-employ her only to tell her she had 4 weeks to lose the weight. When asked if he had weighed her prior to her pregnancy, he was stumped. What I was surprised by was the fact that many of the "old school" trainers had actually come into line with the legislation and were treating staff better – it was the "new kids on the block" who were the worst offenders.
Quite often a lad/lass will get injured at work. The trainer will pay them for a time, then they go onto Statutory Sick Pay. Then they stop paying them. And time and again, staff are still getting sacked with no warning. No verbal warnings, no written warnings – nothing. And when staff do complain to the NASS, they are often too frightened to take it any further for fear of reprisal – poor references & black-listing – which does still happen.
But please note – the above statements DO NOT adhere to Lady Cecil!!
Mike Marshall is now not joining Ismail Mohammed, but instead going to Martyn Meade at Sefton Lodge.
When someone hasn’t the interest to be hands on in a stable when you have a horse like Frankel you wouldn’t want them then training your horse! When you lose the two top people at the stable things will certainly go down hill. Can’t understand why one would chase a 25 yo for the assistant trainers job, she needed someone with years of experience. That in no way questions the ability of George Scott but he hasn’t got the experience you need as yet. I just think Jane Cecil has set herself up for a big fall, obviously she wasn’t interested in getting out of bed on those cold mornings before,so I think that says it all really. It all looks lovely at Royal Ascot and all those big meetings, she should have handed the licence to the bloke who helped her husband for all those years!
Mike Marshall is now not joining Ismail Mohammed, but instead going to Martyn Meade at Sefton Lodge.
That’s a strange one. Wonder what happened there?
……..and now Queally is leaving to go freelance but that is probably more to do with the Abdullah/Doyle tie-up although I read no mention of Queally riding for Warren Place in future on a when available basis once he leaves but lets hope the split isn’t acrimonious.
I so hope that next year matters at Warren Place can continue to operate at the high standards of achievements of recent years but the smoke signals seem more worrying than encouraging.
……..and now Queally is leaving to go freelance but that is probably more to do with the Abdullah/Doyle tie-up although I read no mention of Queally riding for Warren Place in future on a when available basis once he leaves but lets hope the split isn’t acrimonious.
I so hope that next year matters at Warren Place can continue to operate at the high standards of achievements of recent years but the smoke signals seem more worrying than encouraging.
It certainly is worrying though it’s not a great surprise TQ has left. Lady C has been using lots of different jockeys lately which was totally different to Sir H’s train of thought of only using a stable jock plus one or two others.
Here’s hoping Lady C knows what she’s doing
Many Arab owners have difficulty dealing with women in authority.
As neither KA or Juddmonte have came out backing Lady C I find this worrying too
So for the people who have said that anyone can train a horse it is interesting to look at the deterioration at Warren Place over the closing months of the season. I don’t say this with any relish as I was desperately hoping that fortunes could somehow be maintained after the death of the great Sir Henry but the facts seem to show that, so far at least, those shoes are not going to be easy to fill.
Since Sir Henry’s death the monthly win percentage has fallen thus:
June – 27%
July – 24%
August – 22%
September – 18%
October – 10%
November – 0%Lady Cecil has lost Mike Marshall so the two people that have been running the show for the last 7 years and who were responsible for Frankel are both now gone as is Tom Queally.
She has only had 3 two year old winners and there seems a lack of talent amongst the juveniles.
The stable website still talks of Sir Henry in the present tense and I am not sure she is doing enough to really promote herself. I know she hates the limelight but she is now the boss so she has to.
I hope this is a just an end of season blip but I worry that she will struggle. Next year will obviously be huge and it will be interesting to see what support she receives from Prince K.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I think Lady Jane is very fragile at the moment, she has weathered the storm after Sir Henry’s death and his staff have wrapped themselves around her like a protective cloak to help her through the season. Also the hard work and attentive care that Sir Henry gave to his horses stayed with them for many months after his death and the rewards were reaped because of him.
Now as the months will turn into years the Magic is beginning to fade and loyalties will wear thin if not rewarded. Lady Jane has strived to keep the name of Cecil alive at Warren Place but at what cost…but something inside of me wants to shout at her to be strong and stand her ground, take the time over the coming months take hold of those reigns and ensure that Sir Henry’s legacy lives on…if this means that she has to go cap in hand to Mike Marshall or any of Sir Henry’s closes friends or family for help then she should make haste and get her Team Cecil up and running again hopefully starting with the announcement that she is appointing a new Trainer at Warren Place enabling her to take a step back from a job that she was never comfortable in and concentrate on preserving the Legacy that is Warren Place by encouraging new owners to bring their horses and ensuring the existing owners don’t look elsewhere, the jewel in this particular crown being Prince Khaled.
We are all still mourning the loss of Sir Henry, it’s still hard to believe that he’s gone and as Joni mentioned they are still talking of him in the present on the website.
Lady Jane has to look to the future of Warren Place now and fight even harder to save everything that he cherished and held dear. I wish her all the luck in the World.Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...I think Lady Jane is very fragile at the moment, she has weathered the storm after Sir Henry’s death and his staff have wrapped themselves around her like a protective cloak to help her through the season. Also the hard work and attentive care that Sir Henry gave to his horses stayed with them for many months after his death and the rewards were reaped because of him.
Now as the months will turn into years the Magic is beginning to fade and loyalties will wear thin if not rewarded. Lady Jane has strived to keep the name of Cecil alive at Warren Place but at what cost…but something inside of me wants to shout at her to be strong and stand her ground, take the time over the coming months take hold of those reigns and ensure that Sir Henry’s legacy lives on…if this means that she has to go cap in hand to Mike Marshall or any of Sir Henry’s closes friends or family for help then she should make haste and get her Team Cecil up and running again hopefully starting with the announcement that she is appointing a new Trainer at Warren Place enabling her to take a step back from a job that she was never comfortable in and concentrate on preserving the Legacy that is Warren Place by encouraging new owners to bring their horses and ensuring the existing owners don’t look elsewhere, the jewel in this particular crown being Prince Khaled.
We are all still mourning the loss of Sir Henry, it’s still hard to believe that he’s gone and as Joni mentioned they are still talking of him in the present on the website.
Lady Jane has to look to the future of Warren Place now and fight even harder to save everything that he cherished and held dear. I wish her all the luck in the World.Perfectly put Jaq
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
She has only had 3 two year old winners and there seems a lack of talent amongst the juveniles.
The stable website still talks of Sir Henry in the present tense and I am not sure she is doing enough to really promote herself. I know she hates the limelight but she is now the boss so she has to.
I hope this is a just an end of season blip but I worry that she will struggle. Next year will obviously be huge and it will be interesting to see what support she receives from Prince K.
I see the stable website is now under development and will be ready for the new season joni. So that’s the first step.
Does anyone know what older horses are being kept in training at Warren Place? The likes of Noble Mission, Stipulate, Tiger Cliff, First Mohican. Also is the number of yearlings sent form Juddmonte up or down on previous years?
I agree with Triptych’s post about trying to get Mike Marshall back on board although as we don’t know the reason for him leaving in the first place it might not be possible.
One thing that might also help is getting another stable jockey therefore having a little bit of continuity. I know TQ had his critics but at least you knew who was riding the Cecil horses generally. Nowadays it’s unbelievable the number of jocks that are being used.
I’m also in the worried camp
One thing that might also help is getting another stable jockey therefore having a little bit of continuity. I know TQ had his critics but at least you knew who was riding the Cecil horses generally. Nowadays it’s unbelievable the number of jocks that are being used.
I wouldn’t bother with a stable jockey, use the best available.
If Tom Queally doesn’t want the job, what’s the quality of jockey likely to be, that will accept the job? Lots of owners won’t want a low quality jockey riding their horses even if he is stable jockey, if Ryan Moore, Frankie etc are sat in the weighing room.
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