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If you have a situation where banks are going bust, you do something to rectify it. Racing is not in crisis because it is in the hands of two very able people, my good friend Paul Roy (BHA chairman) and Nic Coward (BHA chief executive), and what will come out eventually will be a stronger way of going forward.
Lest we forget that the last orgainsation Paul Roy set on a forward course to bright sunlit uplands was Merril Lynch, one of the bust banks mentioned anon.
It reported billions of pounds of losses before being gobbled up by Bank of America, but not before they had bought forward their accounting period to pay out $3.6bn in bonuses to their staff from TARP funds!
We’re in good hands……………
Simple answer :-
A levy of 1p in the pound onall
horseracing bets – backs or lays, exchanges and bookmakers.
This throwaway sum would generate more cash than racing has ever received from the present levy, and would serve the much more important purpose of allowing racing to be run as a sport, rather than the animated lottery it’s become under its current funding – not to mention providing a level playing field for all who contribute to it.
No levy on-course,and pool betting only for users outside the UK and Ireland.
Sorted!I’m coming around to this view myself. I think it could be an answer in financial and Forex markets as well. I struggle to see what benefit aacrues to society from trading activity, much of it automated in markets ranging from Betfair to the Stock Exchange. If every trade had a 1% tax then the current practice of bots placing hundreds of backs and lays without having an opinion would be either abandoned or provide serious revenue to the operators and hopefully the sports themselves.
Our (Irish) government idea of a 2% tax on winning bets only will not fly and is exactly the p*ss poor response I expected after their promise to solve the issue by year’s end.Would it be possible for a Racing Post Members Club member to post Edward Gillespie’s comments on his contemplation of offshore bookmaker/parasite sponsorship of the Cheltenham Festival next year?
The last two paragraphs had me alternating between pained, hysterical laughter and tears of despair. I could scarcely believe what I was reading. If you’ve not seen it, you’re in for a similar treat.
I can’t find the article on the RP web site. However, some of what Edward Gillespie said is covered in Mark Davies’ blog entry about Paul Struthers’ official response to the Betfair ads that ran in the RP at the weekend (a quote presumably given with his fingers crossed so it didn’t count as he’s too bright actually to believe what is reported to have come out of his mouth).
http://www.markxdavies.com/2010/10/07/t … lly-walks/
In fairness to the RP, once again taking the Betfair shilling for advertising hasn’t stopped them running sniping news stories. [Share price is greedy. Customer who inexplicably lost £400 has it returned to his account. etc.]
Obviously Ralph Topping is still outspending them.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3910bf12-d7c2 … abdc0.html
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … ry/778120/
(For those that are interested, this is a case of take your pick. Both need registration of some kind unless you’re a computer expert)
I’m not bumping this to the top pointlessly, but I’ve maintained for sometime that it’s time betting operators paid back fairly to the governing bodies of all sports who put on the events, and not racing only. As a result, racing has really been at a disadvantage through fighting alone on the basis of the "levy system." I know many will say that other sports are competition etc. It’s obviously one thing being able to market your sport aggressively so gamblers give back, but another having to sit back and watch the money go "missing." If something can be done on a larger scale, (EU) which also involved "offshore" betting companies, perhaps sport in general would have guaranteed, fair betting returns.
At the moment, the whole levy issue doesn’t seem to be going "racings" way from where I’m sitting.
After the levy has been dealt with, perhaps those in charge will focus their attention on breeding, breeders and sales companies…….
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … gbusiness/
I can’t read the story, like quite a few others on here, but less than £50m? Times are desperate then. With the BHA I always have a little question whether still it is dramatics.
He’s still banging on about ‘people trading as bookmakers’ on Betfair dodging the Levy. Quite how anyone can make a book at exchange margins, pay commission, pay premium charge and still generate enough profit to justify a levy payment is quietly glossed over.
Even if such people exist, they must be in single figures and their profit is unlikely to exceed the threshold that allows the big three to avoid paying full levy in many of their shops.
But Coward can’t resist adding :
Coward said he had read of one major bookmaker saying betting exchanges are "doing racing out of £30 million"
For ‘major bookmaker’ read Ralph Topping!
The £50M figure is what Coward believes the bookmakers will offer for 2011/12 once the government have opted out of their role as arbitrator.
Perhaps the government announcement today will set a precedent for racing – if you can have aircraft carriers with no aircraft, why not racing with no horses? Open the bars, show the greyhounds and the cartoon racing, car boot sale in the paddock, put on a concert, get Thommo in as compere, call it Town Centre day as opposed to Countryside day.
AP
Perhaps the government announcement today will set a precedent for racing – if you can have aircraft carriers with no aircraft, why not racing with no horses? Open the bars, show the greyhounds and the cartoon racing, car boot sale in the paddock, put on a concert, get Thommo in as compere, call it Town Centre day as opposed to Countryside day.
AP
I think I’d rather enjoy that. Most racecourses are nice places to be even when closed.
It’s not a bad suggestion for ‘alternative to the levy’. Put concerts on, hold conferences, have car boot sales? 10% of the takings into the prize money pool thanks very much.
I had the rather silly idea that if courses charge £18 to get in (for example), have them put the price up to £20 & put that £2 per head in the pool too. £28? Now £30 etc. It wouldn’t put people off going & it’s not going to fund the St Leger but it would pay for some of the more lowly races at least.
For sure, racing should stop looking at gambling procedes as the be all & end all of funding.
AP, it’s time for Coward and Roy to prove us all wrong. I’m positive that this is the year that racing’s leaders grow a pair and stand up to the funders.
Not just bookmakers, but exchanges too.
When you look at the rest of the world, our funding infrastructure is antiquated and surreal. At a time when everyone is taking a global perspective, we need to look outward and come into line with the rest.
I have a dream where Coward stands opposite Topping and the rest at the end of the boardroom table and says simply; "if you don’t pay us X, you aren’t showing racing in your shops/on the computer" And then walks out, smoking gun in hand.
Bookies are already playing hardball in negotiations. We need to play even harder.
Owners are already racing for small change so why would such a brinkmanship approach be any more risky than what we’ve got now?
If bookies/exchanges don’t want racing any more at a market price, then such is life – we can set up what we should have done in the first place in 1961. It will be painful and there will be casualties. But never again will the sport be beholden to funders with a self interested agenda to reduce funding to racing. Imo, anyway.
They should get Martin Broughton back to replace Mr Potter. He seems pretty good at shaking down a bunch of offshore spivs for the 130-150m hole they’ve left in the sinking ship.
Max , dream on , the leadership of the BHA have proved themselves inept for too long , it is my opinion that that there will be changes at the top, and not a minute too soon
In reality the boookies will offer a pittance , they will have to accept , there is no real alternative in place , lets deal in real stuff …the exchanges will be asked to donate more, its likely they may say no and move off shore
Coward et all are not and never have been in a position of strength , only when racing owns the tote and has enough operating outlets outside of the bookmakers domain , then and only then can racing start calling the shots
In the meantime , the bookies and the courses will do deals , thereby making the BHA toothless,and impotent , its hard to see a rosy future for all of those salary/bonus leeches that have been for so long bleeding racing dry
Its not a pretty picture , but rest assured prize money levels are going to be low / disgraceful for a while longer …..
Ricky
Its not a pretty picture , but rest assured prize money levels are going to be low / disgraceful for a while longer ….
Racing can’t afford that to happen, Ricky. Its too late.
I firmly believe that if the BHA traveller in the Rockies started beating his chest when faced with the Bookmaker grizzlies, the bears would run for it.
Virtual racing functions as nothing more than visual noise, a cheap distractor – and what person born with a working brain would make a special journey to a turf accountants to bet on virtuals?
FOBT’s aren’t enough either and – as has been noted – attract, er, a special type of customer. BAGS Greyhound racing – bless the sport, a sport I love – offers a shocking value betting experience.
There’s no getting away from it – racing attracts punters through the door.
Exchanges too – read Sean’s blog for the reasons why Betfair needs racing.
However, bookmakers and exchanges don’t believe this. I’ve hardly seen one communicate with any enthusiasm about the sport for years. They all have a vested interest in doing the sport down, the hideous Ralph Topping being the most notable culprit
Quite a few forumites don’t think racing is necessary in a bookmaking establishment either, so I may be in a minority here – and I may be wrong.
Do you not think its about time the theory was tested?
One way or another?
All it takes is Coward and Roy to stand up to the bookmakers and the exchanges and tell them that racing needs
100 million pounds
, inflation linked, non-negotiable, for each of five years. The aggregated bookies pay £85 million, the exchanges £15 million.
If Coward and Roy are laughed at, the BHA removes its product from the shops, from ATR and from RUK.
Fifty percent of racehorse owners don’t need the money so we’ll race live without pictures, and the other fifty percent are racing for small change anyway. We could injunct the offshore parasites out of the picture and refuse to take their sponsorship.
If Betfair goes abroad, so be it. Maybe the BHA might buy the smallest exchange and turn it into Drone’s non-profit idea.
And surely none of you guys would follow Betfair overseas when horse racing – the sport you profess to love – was in crisis? Wouldf you?
Then, after all this, we’ll see what the true value of horse racing is. No more nonsense. Its only when something has nearly gone that people recognise its true value.
Quite a fe people suggesting racing should withdraw its product and calling the betting industry’s bluff.
I wouldn’t be confident of that working. Look what happened in the foot and mouth crisis – bookies’ profits went up! Racing has had a desperately weak bargaining position ever since.
What I can’t understand is why racing doesn’t make moves to control a betting operation itself. We might even see a different attitude from The Rabble if they actually start having
direct
dealings with punters.
As a starting point why doesn’t it get hold of a tote direct machine and run a phone/web tote rebate service, with all profits going to racing?
I’ve come to this debate rather late and haven’t read the preceding pages, I’m afraid. Has there been any discussion of increasing entry fees as a way to boost prizemoney?
There certainly has Tuffers
Wouldn’t disagree about the tote playing a bigger part etc but as well as that, why don’t the entries for each race go up dramatically and go directly to the prize money? I think the ancients referred to it as ‘stakes’ racing.
At the moment there’s a serious lack of incentive for jockeys in particular, with most of their official earnings coming from flat fees in most races.
If you’re paying thousands of pounds a month to keep a horse in training why are you only throwing a handful of loose change into the pot every time it races? It beggars belief.
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