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I see Billy Hills are moving their bat phones to their cave on the Rock of Gibraltor.
That’s another few million taken out of our glorious leaders’ mouths. What will they do to counteract it? They can’t narrow the Lingfield turf track any more, with a jockey almost put over the rail on Saturday, and everyone’s twigged what’s going on at Beverley.
I hope the rumours aren’t true, but I’ve heard that one of them has dug up the original plans of his ancestral castle and that an unannounced moat is being planned around the inside at Chester on the same line of circumference as the inside six stalls
http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-ra … 46703/top/
The Nic Coward response.
I’ll give Ralph Topping one thing – he’s a leader. A loathsome individual; a dark, verminous, leprous, coprophilic, pubic lice of a human being, but a leader nonetheless.
He really would see the death of horse racing. Look at the timing of his announcement – the day before Glorious Goodwood and the Galway festival, the mid-summer highwater marks of the season.
Read Nic Coward’s tepid response to Topping’s aggression. It’s like Denis Healey and Geoffrey Howe all over again. Wizened forumites will remember the former once describing the latter’s parliamentary onslaught as like being "savaged by a dead sheep." Pretty much like Coward’s bleating today.
Max , the problem now is that relations are now so strained and appear personalised , that a solution with the present team players looks 1 million to one against
I expect fireworks to happen real soon
cheers
Ricky
The Nic Coward response.
I’ll give Ralph Topping one thing – he’s a leader. A loathsome individual; a dark, verminous, leprous, coprophilic, pubic lice of a human being, but a leader nonetheless.
He really would see the death of horse racing. Look at the timing of his announcement – the day before Glorious Goodwood and the Galway festival, the mid-summer highwater marks of the season.
Read Nic Coward’s tepid response to Topping’s aggression. It’s like Denis Healey and Geoffrey Howe all over again. Wizened forumites will remember the former once describing the latter’s parliamentary onslaught as like being "savaged by a dead sheep." Pretty much like Coward’s bleating today.
To put it politely, are you mad?
"He really would see the death of horse racing" – it’s like he’s really supposed to care deeply about it when he’s employed by William Hill.
It’s a business decision. And it’s one more sensible decision than the BHA have made in the last few years with their bright idea to allow an ever expanding fixture list to be created whilst having to drop prize money. That makes sense…. oh, because when it goes wrong, we will blame the bookmakers for it.
To put it politely, are you mad?
Furious, chief. Absolutely furious. I can scarcely eat my Weetabix this morning.
He really would see the death of horse racing" – it’s like he’s really supposed to care deeply about it when he’s employed by William Hill
Do you know who William Hill was, Jose? Let me enlighten you.
William Hill was one of the greatest bookmakers of this or any other generation and a racing fanatic. He loved the sport. He could tell you the pedigrees of a corral full of Skegness donkeys just by wandering past licking a double cornet.
Do you recall Tudor Minstrel in 1947? Won the Guineas that year and was subsequently hyped by the red tops like the South Sea Bubble. The population skewed the balance of payments by withdrawing their life savings to back the wonder colt for the Derby. Couldn’t be beaten, they said. A racing certainty.
William Hill laid it for everything he owned on an OPINION that the horse wouldn’t stay a yard over a mile and a quarter.
He was right. I often look up and wonder what he must think of his Spawn of Satan successor sitting on his throne.
It’s a business decision.
No its not, its brinkmanship. And what Topping forgets is that without horse racing, he wouldn’t have a business. It’s like Colonel Sanders ceasing to cook spicy chicken or the Dulux dog advertising cars. He is biting the hand that feeds – and that’s always poor business.
I don’t know what businesses you work in, but mine work WITH partners to sort out problems in a spirit of cooperation. You don’t just walk away from a partner you’ve worked with for fifty plus years because you’re in a bad mood.
oh, because when it goes wrong, we will blame the bookmakers for it.
I’m not blaming the bookmakers. Organisations like Coral, Totesport and (to an extent) Ladbrokes, plus plenty of Independents, are working WITH horse racing to sort the problems out. Sportingbet pay levy from Gibraltar – it can be done.
I’m having a go at Topping – unlike Nic Coward, whose entire tactics centre on government support.
If I were him, I’d return Hill’s share of the media rights payment and levy forthwith and shut down all broadcasts to their shops. I’d do that today.
Did you go in a Betfred’s shop when they didn’t have Turf TV, Jose? Made the Marie Celeste look like a Ministry of Sound night.
I’m expressing my indignation and frustration in the only medium open to me as a racing outsider, Jose.
By the way, you’re on a horse racing forum. Do you care if the sport goes under? You’ll be sitting there offering a cynical, ironic view when all the horseboxes are traipsing past you on the way to Chantilly and all we’re left with is crappy football.
Interestingly the Daily Topping chooses to carry the mildly significant news about him going to play in Gibraltar on page 13. Matt Dawson’s new job makes page 3. Well done Bruce.
Meanwhile Greg Wood advocates old-fashioned, low-tech consumer sovereignty.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/20 … -gibraltarWell said, Greg.
Surely the answer is for us punters to bet more with William Hill and put them out of business though?
Maxillon 5,do I care if the sport goes under? What do you really think the answer to that is? But do I care about it to the point where I feel that horse racing should be treated differently to every other sport? No.
Racing has to generate its income from what it can generate itself. Do the bookmakers affect that? Well no more than sports betting potentially is/can/will. No more than Football affects Rugby. The Tote is an imaginary white elephant. The attendance at York shows how healthy the sport is apparently – marvellous, but racing actually pays C4 to show races as I understand it. Is it a "loss leader," as such? Possibly. But it doesn’t sound great for a sport some pass off as healthy.
I’m amazed that no one addresses the issue of how the "offshore" bookmakers are allowed to sponsor races on British racecourses. Worst of all sponsorships are permitted advertising other sports’ betting options and the BHA think they have a right to whine about the lack of levy paid by the same companies?
Sensible controls haven’t even been put in place by our sport itself as Greg Wood has expanded on. Have the ladbrokes World Cup Football maiden stakes and the Victor Chandler "I’m loving it here in Gibraltar" Chase.
And William Hill PLC aren’t William Hill. John James Sainsbury’s "business style was to offer competitive prices while at the same time demonstrating higher standards of quality, service, and hygiene." I doubt everything in their stores meet those standards…
I feel Hills’ decision was a business one. Maybe I’m wrong. There’s always the option of "picking the sport up" at a cut-price if it collapses – one they feel where they really are in control and dictating. That would require more of the betting industry to stop paying levy for it to really be "brinkmanship." And according to your post, the other companies are working with racing, so it’s hard to consider it "brinkmanship," so I perceive it as a business decision. But the bookmakers committee who delivered their ruthless, annual attack on racing via their levy submission would suggest there’s an element of that.
The irony is how Coward and Topping agree on betting exchanges.
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Business decision? LOL. It’s a bonus driven decision. Management everywhere is scrambling to achieve their bonus targets and don’t care who or what they screw to get their fistful of dollars. Cut costs any way you can because the accountants and managers have taken over. William Hill are no longer a firm of real bookmakers willing to risk it all. Self protection is the name of this game. Racing is the loser.
Jose like it or not horse racing IS different to other sports. I’m yet to turn up to a Rugby match, swim meet, soccer, major athletics, cricket or synchronised hoola hoop dancing contest to see the fence lined by bookmakers. When I do I’ll get back to you. Until then the tone of your posts on this thread simply looks ignorant to me.
When you let parasites live in your house sooner or later you have to call the exterminator. Racing should have some time ago.
Jose like it or not horse racing IS different to other sports. I’m yet to turn up to a Rugby match, swim meet, soccer, major athletics, cricket or synchronised hoola hoop dancing contest to see the fence lined by bookmakers. When I do I’ll get back to you. Until then the tone of your posts on this thread simply looks ignorant to me.
Ignorant in the sense that the bookmakers paid for the right to be there and someone allowed them to be?
We never get back to that bit, do we? Who needs them there, who wants them there and who allows them to be there.
It’s a bit like the sponsorship issue with different sports and the offshore companies, who are dodging levy payments, being allowed to promote their selves.
Ignorant – no the sport has been that.
When you let parasites live in your house sooner or later you have to call the exterminator. Racing should have some time ago.
And if all the considered parasites withdrew all their sponsorship, levy backing, media rights payments, regardless of whether I think they should have pay, and stopped betting on horse racing, is the Tote able to take it all on from tomorrow?
We’ll see in time if the government feels the same way as the BHA, Coward, Roy etc.
And I hope no-one forgets the DATA RIGHTS case in 2005 failed.
Max, appreciate your fervour and passion for our sport , but sometimes we have to face reality
Jose is spot on , we dont have a tote monopoly , we are dependent on the levy as it stands right now
Problem is relations have become so strained that it will probably take a couple of major resignations and a new negotiating team to try and restore some form of dialogue …..
As it stands we are on the verge of a major drop in racing income and No I dont see any government coming to the rescue , that would be politically obscene and unlikely , in fact given the present austerity climate , impossible is more correct
Brinkmanship is the game at the moment and there can be only one loser and that looks like racing’s income
I expect scathing cuts in the fixtures as some sort of riposte, but that is only going to darken the atmosphere
We need proper leadership to sort this out , unfortunately we dont seem to have that , heads must roll and soon
cheers
Ricky
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Bookmakers should continue to pay for the right to operate on horse racing or leave. Pretty simple really. Parasites on the tail wagging the dog is a joke. One less leech will be a good start.
Does anyone really think racing would languish without High St bookmakers? That’s beyond laughable. Their loss would be a minor glitch with a Tote who operate completely onshore soon taking up the slack. The Government should take a solid gamble by underwriting the levy in the interim and reaping a larger longterm benefit from Tote profits.
Bookmakers have never and will never "make" this industry. They have merely been a longterm part of a largely dysfunctional funding model. It’s time for a change.
I’m sick of walking into High St shops and being confronted by some high school dropkick who couldn’t care less about horse racing and knows very little about the sport or the wagering options they are selling. I know there are exceptions but sadly they are in the minority. High St bookmakers are nothing but a marketing boil on the sport’s forehead. They do little if anything to build the image of a sport loved by millions. I doubt they ever will.
the Government should take a solid gamble by underwriting the levy in the interim and reaping a larger longterm benefit from Tote profits.
Chiswick dear chap , this is a pipe dream , you need to grasp where we are at , not where we should be ,
Please dont be offended ,as none is intended , but we need someone in racing to deal with the now ….
cheers
Ricky
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Not offended by any opposing view Ricky. I’m just tossing my thoughts into the breeze.
We are in the time of Racing For Change. Surely change is harder to effect if our view is always as restricted as the here and now?
Something has to be done and shuffling the deckchairs isn’t going to make a scrap of long term difference if objectives are forever shortsighted.
Jose, I’m stuck a few quid, so I might return to the subject after Goodwood.
I agree with Chiswickian’s first paragraph 100 hundred percent.
Bookmakers should continue to pay for the right to operate on horse racing or leave. Pretty simple really. Parasites on the tail wagging the dog is a joke. One less leech will be a good start.
William Hill became a parasite yesterday, Chiswickian. As Luca Cumani brilliantly observed in the mid nineties, a leech depends on the survival of the host – a parasite does not.
Topping will still be taking bets over the phone on British horse racing – except he will no longer be paying for the privilege. That’s both immoral and parasitic.
If we must have bookmakers, they must pay a market rate
per race
– and that includes Betfair players and offshore freeloaders.
Topping will still be taking bets over the phone on British horse racing – except he will no longer be paying for the privilege. That’s both immoral and parasitic.
If we must have bookmakers, they must pay a market rate
per race
– and that includes Betfair players and offshore freeloaders.
Add the fact they should pay for the privilege for the other sports, and I’m with you 100%. They really should pay more for the privilege of betting on Arsenal and Manchester United with their 50 markets as Topping says. It’s time off-course bookmakers paid for privilege of every sport or no sport.
Now for ten years we’ve been on our own
Greened up moss grows fat on a rollin’ stone,
But remember that’s not how it used to be.
When Woody Wyatt fawned for king and queen,
In a coat he borrowed from Cyril Stein
And a Royce that came from you and meThat was then…
But now we’re singing, "bye-bye, all that pie in the sky"
We’re not heavy with the levy,
But the levy ain’t dry.
An us good old boys are drinkin’ tonic and gin,
Singin’, "this’ll be the day that I win.
"this’ll be the day that I win."Here’s to us boys, here’s to us.
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