- This topic has 105 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 5 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
As regards water jumps and Ireland the only one I can remember was at Leopardstown. The track closed for at least a year in the late sixties for a major redevelopment and when it reopened there was a water jump in front of the grandstand. It did not last long maybe a year. I presume there were too many fallers,
I hereby sentence myself to an afternoon at Dunstall Park by way of punishment. gc
Jeremy the "crime" does not deserve that severe a punishment
(Actually, whisper it, but I was (and I can hardly bring myself to confessing this) toying with the idea of going to Wolvo a couple of Mondays ago, as it would have been the closest afternoon meeting there to the 25th anniversary of my first ever trip to the races – Dunstall Park, Monday, March 26th, 1983.
The plus side would have been that I’d have got an interesting "reminiscence" piece out of it for whichever of my freelance employers would have liked it. The negative side would have been that Grasshopper would have disowned me.
Either way, I got called into town to do a podcast at short notice, so that quickly kicked that idea in the nuts
).Sorry, back to the topic – I know Wolvo didn’t have a water of any description once jumps racing resumed there briefly after the laying down of the sandpit, but I can’t remember without recourse to my manuals (at home) when original Wolvo, Nottingham and Windsor did away with theirs.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
I got the following list from Bridtish Horse Rcaing Board:
Cartmel
Cheltenham (new)
Cheltenham (old)
Doncaster
Exeter
Haydock
Hereford
Hexham
Huntingdon
Leicester
Ludlow
Newbury
Newton Abbot
Perth
Sandown
Stratford
Wetherby
quote from johnjdonague:
So guaranteed no more fatalities at the Chair or Beechers then Beeswing. How about the 3rd last at Cheltenham, which seems to catch a number of horses out, and is a trappy obstacle. Granite Jack also came to grief at this fence last year, and how Don’t Push it survived at the festival this year I dont’t know. Should this fence be removed?
There have certainly been far less fatalities at Bechers since it was modified – surely you cant be unhappy about that, John?
I think you are refering to the 2nd last on the Old Course at Cheltenham? Unless youve been on a desert island, you should be aware that this was modified slightly prior to the festival, and as far as I could see, there were few problems with it during the meeting.
Anyway, can you answer my question about the lack of Irish water jumps? (I’m assuming from your name your from over there, but pardon me if I’m mistaken
)Yes I am Irish, and of course I am happy about less fatalities, anywhere. However, my point is that there are many dangers in NH and we just have to accept them. Has anybody any statistics on what fence actually ARE the most dangerous. As Ten plus has pointed out that there has only been one fatality at Ludlow, who is the subject of this thread.
JohnJ.
I suppose if everyone did away with water jumps tomorrow and never told us we would take months to catch on to the fact they had done it.
I am dead against what Haydock did when the removed their fences but water jumps I could easily live without.
However it seems everytime there is a serious accident someone comes up with something like this.
NH racing has always been a fairly dangerous sport and ok the powers that be should take every precaution to ensure the safety of both horse and rider……..but where does it stop?
I don’t know about you guys but when I have had a large bet the one thing that always worries me is my horse falling……a hard fact of life I’m afraid.
I always find the water jump is that one moment when you can relax as accidents are like 1 in hundreds if not thousands.
It’s probably the least likely fence for a horse to fall or get injured….I would bet anyone if every fence was a water jump there would be a lot less fallers and a lot less accidents.
This accident was apparantly a horrible one but when horses are killed they are killed……crashing through a fence and breaking it’s neck or dropping it’s legs in the water and having to be destroyed makes no difference to the poor horse at the end of the day.
I really don’t know the answer to this one other than to say if the statistics say the fence is generally safe then nothing is likley to be done.
If the European style angled exit from a shallow water jump works and adds a spectacle to the event, why not give it a go at some of the tracks and possibly then move the idea out to others. Surely changing one jump a minor amount wouldn’t be a serious problem for many of the tracks…
The water jump is a throwback to many years ago and remember that Bechers and Valentines were effectively water jumps too until the brooks were filled in.
Article in todays post about this . Johnjo is against and the BHA and RSPCA came out in support .
quote from john jdonaghue:
Yes I am Irish, and of course I am happy about less fatalities, anywhere. However, my point is that there are many dangers in NH and we just have to accept them. Has anybody any statistics on what fence actually ARE the most dangerous. As Ten plus has pointed out that there has only been one fatality at Ludlow, who is the subject of this thread.
I love my jump racing as much as anyone on here John, but the fact remains that, to avoid playing into the hands of the Sedgefield pickets and their chums, we have to move with the times. This means looking at all aspects of fences/racecourses, to reduce the amount of risk wherever possible, while still maintaining the character of the sport.
I dont know if you remember, but back in the 80’s the RSPCA were constantly going on about getting the National banned. But since the modificatons in a number of key areas, they have totally changed their tune – it is only the lunatic animal right fringe who now protest about it.
(By the way, the Sedgefield protest was shown on Look North – what a motley bunch they were! Aload of student goths who obviously didnt have a clue about the sport. Unsurprisingly, they got pretty short shrift from the locals!!)
Is the Racing Post article available on-line? I can’t seem to find it.
Whilst trying to I came across a piece about Stratford reintroducing the water jump:
“Champion trainer Paul Nicholls recently called for Newbury’s water jump to be removed after his promising novice Nevada Royale was injured when making a mistake at the obstacle. There have been numerous complaints from trainers about water jumps after cases of horses picking up leg and pelvic injuries when dropping their hind legs in the water.”By the way my info from Bob Davies re Ludlow was incorrect – another Hunter Chaser suffered similarily years ago – Blakeley Lane.
RE: This accident was apparantly a horrible one but when horses are killed they are killed……crashing through a fence and breaking it’s neck or dropping it’s legs in the water and having to be destroyed makes no difference to the poor horse at the end of the day.
There is a difference – breaking a neck is instant – what happened to poor East Tycoon was not …and we don’t have to “just accept” the many dangers – accidents will happen – just on Monday a loose horse got onto the A12 from a point-to-point – efforts have to be made to minimise them and I believe true water “splashes” would help …
I agree that water jumps should be made safer (shallower?), but I also understand that only about half a dozen horses have been killed at water jumps in the UK since 2001 – that’s one a year.
Allowing for those courses which no longer have water jumps, chasers jump these fences maybe around one out of twelve “leaps” on average? If deaths in steeplechases could be reduced to about dozen a year that would be a sensational result for racehorse welfare, not to mention for the sport’s image.
If water jumps are replaced by plain fences or open ditches, rather than modified, then fatalities will increase, not decrease.
Repeat:
numerous complaints from trainers about water jumps after cases of horses picking up leg and pelvic injuries when dropping their hind legs in the waterTenplus,
We have to accept the dangers involved in NH racing, it is a dangerous sport. Horses running at 30mph over 6ft ditches will bring about this danger, perhaps they should decrease the size of the obstacles and put a speed limit on each course.
JohnJ
I agree that water jumps should be made safer (shallower?), but I also understand that only about half a dozen horses have been killed at water jumps in the UK since 2001 – that’s one a year.
Allowing for those courses which no longer have water jumps, chasers jump these fences maybe around one out of twelve “leaps” on average? If deaths in steeplechases could be reduced to about dozen a year that would be a sensational result for racehorse welfare, not to mention for the sport’s image.
If water jumps are replaced by plain fences or open ditches, rather than modified, then fatalities will increase, not decrease.
One death per year seems statistically large to me considering the number of times water jumps are “jumped”. How many horses are killed per year per “leap” at all other fences. I would be surprised if the incidence here is more than those at water jumps.
I don’t see the point in having water jumps anymore.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
so once you get rid of water jumps – what is next on the list? All the non standard fences? Lets just ban the national, and the X-Country. Infact as jumping any fence is potentially lethal why not just run everything on the flat.
One death per year seems statistically large to me considering the number of times water jumps are "jumped". How many horses are killed per year per "leap" at all other fences. I would be surprised if the incidence here is more than those at water jumps.
Can’t be much less than one can it? it would be none. If every fence was a water jump there would be a lot less fatalities and injuries, that’s what the BHA’s inspector of tracks and RSPCA spokesman said and they should know what they’re talking about rather than an emotional trainer who has just lost a horse at one. On these facts alone shouldn’t more tracks be putting water jumps back in.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.