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Some "high" profile horses that met their end at water jumps I think were – Kybo, Commandante and Geos – the latter last year at the only water jump in a point-to-point.
Geos is an odd case study.
On the one hand, he met his end at the water jump at Tweseldown, one of very few ptp courses (maybe the only one) with a water jump still in circulation at that level and possibly still only there as a legacy of the site’s history as an official NH course up to 1932.
On the other hand, Geos had been extensively hunted by Nicky Henderson’s daughter Camilla during 2006 and 2007, far more than East Tycoon would have been, and the return to competitive racing between the flags – in which sphere his Tweseldown run was his fourth – was always the second priority to Miss Henderson behind giving the old boy lots of interesting and varied spins out in the country.
graysonscolumn: I believe you were at Ludlow –
Nope, not sure where you read that. I was at Hexham on the Thursday of last week, but not Ludlow this.
It’s a false impression that pointers and hunter chasers automatically have vast experience jumping a variety of obstacles whilst qualifying – some do and are good genuine hunters as well as racehorses but equally they can just turn up at a meet (and how many they have to attend varies from hunt to hunt) tootle around – they don’t have to leave the ground – to get a certificate.
My point precisely, and although I’m clearly stopping a long, long way short of saying that is what effectively killed East Tycoon, I’d still proffer that four or five days’ hunting may not be any more of a guarantee of taking in a big variety of obstacles than calling yourself an experienced driver after four or five lessons.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
It beggars belief someone should reproduce the hypocritical posting of Kim Bailey on here on the alleged cruelty of water jumps which is nonsense when the said piece has next to it a picture of cruelty to bulls in Spain together with a "funny" caption.
No offence intended Yeats. I don’t know enough about the safety of water jumps myself to add anything to this thread so I thought I’d put a trainers opinion up to further the debate. I didn’t take any notice of the bull picture to be honest and I have no funny caption appearing on my browser (Firefox).
Animal welfare is important to me, the safety of jockey and horse is paramount, if it wasn’t I’d bet elsewhere.
Haydock have started to build a new water jump on the inside of the new chase course opposite the stands, doubt it’ll be ready for a season or two until the work on the paddock bend is complete.
No offence intended Yeats. I don’t know enough about the safety of water jumps myself to add anything to this thread so I thought I’d put a trainers opinion up to further the debate. I didn’t take any notice of the bull picture to be honest and I have no funny caption appearing on my browser (Firefox).
Animal welfare is important to me, the safety of jockey and horse is paramount, if it wasn’t I’d bet elsewhere.
Don’t worry about it Cavelino, if you put your cursor on the bull the caption may come up, it has the bull saying "Not a typical water jump". I would find it amazing if Bailey doesn’t know what happens to bulls in Spain.
Dont have the caption Yeats but agreed that’s in very poor taste considering his opinion on the website.
In the 12 years or so that i have been going to Haydock which is my local racecourse i have seen i think about 2 or 3 horses drop their hind legs in the old water jump and all horses carried on racing and did not seem to do much damage and only 1 fall which was unaffected by the water itself.
By and large the water jump is a safe fence and long may it continue to be used.
No worries, Ten Plus – I’ve started resorting to stitching "left" and "right" into most of my socks, so I can hardly talk!
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Does anyone actually have any relative statistics on injuries/fatalities at water jumps/normal fences?
The incident at Ludlow was horrific, but so are plenty of others that do not have the water jump to remember them by.
I’d be really interested to know for a fact, whether or not there are more horses that come to grief at water jumps. If there are they should be banned. I suspect there are not, as the BHA has all this data and would already have done away with them if that was the case.
I don’t think hunting has any relevance to a horses capability to jump water, it is the pace that catches out an otherwise nimble animal. Although a horse that has hurdled has a distinct advantage, that is what they look like (and ride like) during a race.Still trying to find out which/how many courses have water jumps – I think it’s a minority that do suggesting that the majority took them out because of problems – not necessarily fatalities but injuries nevertheless …
quote from johnjdonague:
So guaranteed no more fatalities at the Chair or Beechers then Beeswing. How about the 3rd last at Cheltenham, which seems to catch a number of horses out, and is a trappy obstacle. Granite Jack also came to grief at this fence last year, and how Don’t Push it survived at the festival this year I dont’t know. Should this fence be removed?
There have certainly been far less fatalities at Bechers since it was modified – surely you cant be unhappy about that, John?
I think you are refering to the 2nd last on the Old Course at Cheltenham? Unless youve been on a desert island, you should be aware that this was modified slightly prior to the festival, and as far as I could see, there were few problems with it during the meeting.
Anyway, can you answer my question about the lack of Irish water jumps? (I’m assuming from your name your from over there, but pardon me if I’m mistaken
)Apparently according to Bob Davies there have been no other fatalities at the Ludlow water jump …
Was also surprised that Racing UK apparently showed the race in full on their replay … in the past bad incidents like this have been edited out …
Fantastic water jump at Auteuil. A terrific spectacle to watch it jumped right in front of the stands.
It is to be hoped that British courses keep their water jumps.
Still trying to find out which/how many courses have water jumps
I’m not sure this is 100% accurate, but the list could be something along the lines of;
Aintree (National course)
Cheltenham
Exeter
Haydock (just about)
Hereford
Hexham
Huntingdon
Leicester
Ludlow
Newbury
Newton Abbot
Sandown
Stratford (resurrected)
Tweseldown (point-to-point)
WincantonI can’t remember off the top of my head whether Perth’s in front of the stands has been done away with as well – it was certainly still in situ three or four years ago, as I remember a Beck / Guest animal, probably Sharpastrizam, meeting a nasty end there then.
I’ve not thought to look out for one at Doncaster since its reopening, either, but I’m sure someone on here can confirm whether it’s still there or not.
Jeremy
(graysonscolumn)Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
GC,
I’m shocked that your list omits Cartmel – the first time in the history of TRF that you’ve had the opportunity to mention that course and ducked it !
Perth still used the water jump last time they raced and I’m pretty sure nothing has changed at Doncaster either.
AP
I’m shocked that your list omits Cartmel – the first time in the history of TRF that you’ve had the opportunity to mention that course and ducked it !
The irony, the irony!
I can’t even use the excuse that I didn’t see it last time I was there, as it’s more or less the only bleedin’ fence you can see from the stands!
I hereby sentence myself to an afternoon at Dunstall Park by way of punishment. Just the one, you understand, for a first offence.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Personally I don’t see what the spectacle is with water jumps. Watching a race from trackside or stands you don’t really know it is different to any other jump, unless of course a horse jumps it badly and you see a splash or worse. So I would prefer they are got rid of IF they are more dangerours than other jumps. That comes down to statistics around percentage of fallers, of fatalities etc. which I don’t think anyone has, certainly no-one has posted.
I don’t know why some posters feel the need to be flippant about a subject like this. Fine, disagree, put up facts, counter arguments etc. but smart-ass comments about road safety and every obstacle being dangerous just betray a deep-seated low self-esteem.
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