Was Treve the best ever performance by a female racehorse?

[TheBluesBrother]

Was it Andrew?
I’d be interested to know what Blues Brother thinks, but judging by the times yesterday I’d call it only good-soft.

The going at Longchamp yesterday had me scratching my head, the day before (Saturday) I had the going all over at

-0.40s/f

(good to soft)

Turf going allowance table:

Firm +0.55s/f to +0.63s/f
Good/firm +0.20s/f to +0.53s/f
Good -0.25s/f to +0.18s/f
Good/soft -0.55s/f to -0.28s/f
Soft -1.00s/f to -0.58s/f
Heavy -1.58s/f to -1.03s/f

If you applied the going allowance of

-0.40s/f

to all of yesterdays races, the 2yo races would have had speed figures higher than

Treve

earned in the Arc

I must have spent the best part of 3/4 of an hour working on the going allowance and ended up with these, some parts of the course certainly died up in the sun

Longchamp (FR)
06-Oct-13
RACE WINNER DIST ADJ RATING
12:45 Maarek 5f

-0.05

99
01:20 Indonesienne 1m

-0.05

79
01:55 Karakontie 7f

-0.05

63
02:30 Dalkala 1m2f

-0.40

53
03:15 Treve 1m4f

-0.40

84
04:40 Moonlight Cloud 7f

-0.05

86
05:10 Altano 2m4f

-0.40

77
05:40 A Ready Dream 1m

-0.05

57

Using this best fit method the speed figures looked about right to me

[andrew_03]

Great a performance as it was surely it needs to be tempered by the fact it was very soft ground?

Was it Andrew?
I’d be interested to know what Blues Brother thinks, but judging by the times yesterday I’d call it only good-soft.

Abbeye just

0.7

secs slower than Racing Post Standard (admittedly on a different course).
Arc just

1.54

secs slower than Standard despite the less than even pace.
Cadran only

6.38

secs slower than Standard, and that over 2m4f, time of 4 mins

24

secs . Last year’s race on very soft was 4m

43

secs (

25.6

secs slower than standard).

If the ground was "very soft" then the time would make Treve’s performance even better.

As per usual Timeform’s going assessment of Arc Day is not as soft as the Longchamp "official". RUK’s French correspondent Claude Charlet says, the French are not too concerned with the accuracy of going reports.

You may be right Ginge, just going on what was reported at the time.
Also on the C4 coverage it was mentioned that the Jockeys (or maybe just one) said after the first race that the ground was riding softer than it looked.
This seemed to be reinforced by that confirmed mud lover Maarek winning the Abbaye.

[Steeplechasing]

TBB, what did you make of the assertion on twitter that Treve ran the last quarter quicker than Moonlight Cloud?

[Jollyp]

Great a performance as it was surely it needs to be tempered by the fact it was very soft ground?

Was it Andrew?
I’d be interested to know what Blues Brother thinks, but judging by the times yesterday I’d call it only good-soft.

Abbeye just

0.7

secs slower than Racing Post Standard (admittedly on a different course).
Arc just

1.54

secs slower than Standard despite the less than even pace.
Cadran only

6.38

secs slower than Standard, and that over 2m4f, time of 4 mins

24

secs . Last year’s race on very soft was 4m

43

secs (

25.6

secs slower than standard).

If the ground was "very soft" then the time would make Treve’s performance even better.

As per usual Timeform’s going assessment of Arc Day is not as soft as the Longchamp "official". RUK’s French correspondent Claude Charlet says, the French are not too concerned with the accuracy of going reports.

So only 6.38 seconds slower for the Cadran, hmmm or approx. 38 lengths!!! As for your thought that if the ground was very soft it would make Treve’s performance even better, no it doesn’t usually work that way GT.

[Gingertipster]

Thanks BB,
What do you think of Simon Rowlands on the Timeform site (free stuff) "Sectional debrief"? Saying the 7f (1400m) course is highly questionable whether it actually is 1400 metres.

http://www.timeform.com//show_article.asp?num=3185

Value Is Everything

[TheBluesBrother]

TBB, what did you make of the assertion on twitter that Treve ran the last quarter quicker than Moonlight Cloud?

I haven’t seen the fractional times for yesterdays meeting at Longchamp so I cannot work out the fractions.

My going allowance tells me that

Treve

was finishing on the part of the course that I had as

-0.40s/f

(good to soft) and

Moonlight Cloud

was help by a going allowance of

-0.05s/f

(Good), so off the top of my head I would expect

Treve

to have been the fastest finisher after going allowance adjustment per furlong were taken into account

[stilvi]

So much fun only wants Willo to pop in and join his disciples. Fast becoming a game for those who have too much time on their hands.

Personally, I wish we could go back to the days when you could just watch a race and simply be VISUALLY impressed.

Does it really matter that much whether it was the best performance or the twenty-fifth best performance?

[indocine]

It’s like the blond leading the blind.

[TheBluesBrother]

Thanks BB,
What do you think of Simon Rowlands on the Timeform site (free stuff) "Sectional debrief"? Saying the 7f (1400m) course is highly questionable whether it actually is 1400 metres.
http://www.timeform.com//show_article.asp?num=3185

If you work to the assumption that there was only one going allowance at Longchamp yesterday, then like Simon you would be querying distances etc.

Like I stated in the earlier post, if you worked to only one going allowance you will end up with the winners of 2yo races having speed figures surpassing the winner of the Arc

[Mr. Pilsen]

Shame that TDK doesn’t post on here these days.

[Gingertipster]

Thanks BB,
What do you think of Simon Rowlands on the Timeform site (free stuff) "Sectional debrief"? Saying the 7f (1400m) course is highly questionable whether it actually is 1400 metres.
http://www.timeform.com//show_article.asp?num=3185

If you work to the assumption that there was only one going allowance at Longchamp yesterday, then like Simon you would be querying distances etc.

Like I stated in the earlier post, if you worked to only one going allowance you will end up with the winners of 2yo races having speed figures surpassing the winner of the Arc

If I’ve got him right BB, what Simon states is that judging by the marker points on the track – the first part of 7f races are invariably (over years, not just one meeting) run in an unbelievable sectional. Times which are very difficult, if not down right impossible, suggesting the race distance is wrongly advertised.

So unless you believe every (or at least the vast majority of) 7f races are run at something like Quarter horse pace and then every leader suddenly slams on the breaks – it is inconcievable the distance is correct.

Any wrongly advertised distance makes a massive difference to over all time analysis, whatever the going. Making said analysis suspect.

Value Is Everything

[Gingertipster]

So much fun only wants Willo to pop in and join his disciples. Fast becoming a game for those who have too much time on their hands.

Personally, I wish we could go back to the days when you could just watch a race and simply be VISUALLY impressed.

Does it really matter that much whether it was the best performance or the twenty-fifth best performance?

I started this thread to try and give Treve the

FULL

credit I believe she deseves. Not just "visually" impressive. Of course it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things Stilvi. Then again, this sport of ours is The Great Triviality.

Would you rather wind up the forum and we all stopped posting Stilvi?

Value Is Everything

[TheBluesBrother]

Why doesn’t Simon just adjust the Timeform’s standard time for the 7f trip if he thinks that the distance is incorrect

Some people might not be aware, but there are two

1m2f

race distances at Longchamp, one being over

1m1f165y

and the other over

1m2f

, I always check the 1m2f and the 1m1f races prior to compiling my speed figures

[chalk jockey]

Steeplechasing, I remember reading in the Pacemaker magazine after Sagaro had won his 1st Gold Cup that he had ran the final 2 furlongs faster than the 2 sprint races on the card that day.
Some sharks had video recorders shipped from the USA before they were on sale here,it was an advantage worth having.

If you go to back a certainty always buy a return ticket.

[Nathan Hughes]

The fast final furlong suggests they went crawl early on hence why the Japanese superstar didn’t win……..

Blackbeard to conquer the World

[The Ante-Post King]

The fast final furlong suggests they went crawl early on hence why the Japanese superstar didn’t win……..

Nath they crawled for a mile mate then sprinted home,there wasn’t much between ‘Midnight clouds’ and ‘Treves’ final furlong time.

[Nathan Hughes]

Exactly Gord.
Have the Japanese never heard of a pacemaker?

Blackbeard to conquer the World

[Author]

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