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Inermission and quick trivia quiz:
Q1 – At which race meeting today are there two listed races and a card full of entries from the top owners, trainers with the top jockeys competing at?
Q2 – When was the last time Godolphin had three winners at a meeting and at which race meeting was that at?
First prize is a couple of pints of guinness at the bar at either Lingfield or Kempton.
The anti’s are still fixated on the idea that ‘AW racing’ is somehow a separate branch of the sport. They forget that ‘All Weather’ was just a marketing slogan.
For as long as enough horses exist that can prove effective on both turf and artifical surfaces (be that Polytrack and good to firm, Fibresand and soft, or absolutely everything), the idea that all-weather stands entirely alone has little credibility.
I’m sure it was Maxilon who mentioned the last time this tired old argument hoved into view that racing on sand since 1989 has merely brought racing full circle, racing surface-wise – there wasn’t a preponderance of chariot racing performed in amphitheatres on good to firm (watering to maintain), was there!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
But we have far too much Flat racing, and the all-weather hosts most of it. Its homogeneity is a deterrent to potential new enthusiasts and has managed to sour even the keenest of racing fans.
I think some stats Richard posted not so long ago suggested that, unlike their jumping counterparts, the number of Flat and dual-purpose horses in training has not increased (and maybe even have decreased) at the same time as the Flat calendar has swollen.
I’m happy to be corrected by him if wrong, but that alone might suggest the erstwhile summer code could stand just a little minor trimming at certain times of year (winter midweek evenings for one).
I can only sympathise with the homogeneity argument to a small degree, however. Having done more race-reading on the all-weather this summer than ever before, I’ve certainly come to realise how nuanced the different distances, and the races run over them, can be – from the "look mum, no bends!" point and shoot of Southwell’s 5f course all the way up to the eight bends and frequently pacelessness / tactical nature of Wolverhampton 2m1f contests.
There’s probably only as much or as little difference of light and shade between, say, Wolvo races over 8.5f and 9.5f, as there is between 2m1.5f and 2m3.5f hurdles at Market Rasen.
Maybe a limited retrial of all-weather jumping would provide a bit more of the variety I’m sensing Gumshield possibly seeks. I’d certainly be optimistic that, 15 years on from War Beat’s fatal trip over one of Lingfield’s "radiators from space", racing surface and portable hurdle technology has advanced to the stage whereby the horrors of yore are not repeated.
If other racecourses in Europe, from Honzrath in Germany to St Whatsit in Switzerland (help me out, please, AngloGerman!
) can hold jumps races on everything from dirt to packed snow without utter carnage ensuing, it can’t be beyond the wit of British racetracks to follow suit on a more conventional non-grass surface.gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Depressing isn’t it?
….. and perfectly summed up by last nights meeting at Kempton where the low class dross dragged on and on in the mist and murk until 21:45, when it should have been called off an hour earlier.
Credit where it’s due, Paul – that battle of wits between Dubai Meydan, Steve Drowne and the Kempton stalls handlers was the most compelling pieces of telly I’ve seen all week!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I’ve been to Kempton on a quiet night and you take it for what it is. A chance to meet like minded people in the bar (very relaxed and pleasant), stand against the rail having a good look at some horses and having the occasional punt – I can think of far worse things to do with my time.
Seconded. It almost has the feel of a members’ club about it, without any of the boorish, old school tie connotations that that term may automatically inspire. Just 200 (or fewer) punters, bookies, etc. with this secret little race meeting all to themselves.
The Southern faction of TRF met to put together its shortlist of end-of-year awards nominations at Kempton last November, and it was far from an unpleasant experience. Chances are it could probably be persuaded to do the same again this term.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Inermission and quick trivia quiz:
Q1 – At which race meeting today are there two listed races and a card full of entries from the top owners, trainers with the top jockeys competing at?
Q2 – When was the last time Godolphin had four winners at a meeting and at which race meeting was that at?
First prize is a couple of pints of guinness at the bar at either Lingfield or Kempton.
Q2 amended.
Simon, comparing AW Flat racing with Jumps racing is an exercise in futility – they aren’t even the same sport.
Graysons, who cares if an AW card is more ‘competitive’ than a poor Jumps card? It just means that you have two sh*ite cards – no point in trying to differentiate between them.
Hamster racing can be competitive.
Tortoise racing can be competitive.
Raindrop racing can be competitive.And all three provide a level of
spectacle
that is on a par with All-Weather racing…..and Flat Turf racing, for that matter – in my humble opinion, of course.
Competitiveness doesn’t even enter the room, if one is utterly disinterested in the ‘spectacle’ in the first place.
Maybe a limited retrial of all-weather jumping would provide a bit more of the variety I’m sensing Gumshield possibly seeks.
Please, gc,
anything
but that.
Can I have an evening at Kempton with sberry reliving his all-time top 50 polytrack moments instead?
Maybe a limited retrial of all-weather jumping would provide a bit more of the variety I’m sensing Gumshield possibly seeks.
Please, gc,
anything
but that.
Because….?
For all of its pitfalls, it was great to see otherwise limited animals such as Suluk, Wingcommander Eats and Hill Beagle turning out week in, week out in these singular contests back in the day, and in the case of the first-named in particular achieve far more than he could ever have hoped to (or ever did) in any other sphere.
It would need very careful consideration, granted, and even more careful implementation. But arguments against all-weather jumping on aesthetic grounds won’t stack up in everyone’s eyes next to slow-motion slogs in bottomless Towcester mud come mid-winter (for all that I personally love these); and opposition on the grounds that turf alone is safe to jump on and off
may
be hard to reconcile next to the three- (Wincanton) and four-death (Sedgefield, Wetherby) fixtures we’ve had to endure during 2009 (irrespective of how many of those deaths were directly ground-related).
As I say, it wants careful and sober consideration rather quick dismissal on the belief that what occurred previously on the all-weather would do so again.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
comparing AW Flat racing with Jumps racing is an exercise in futility – they aren’t even the same sport
Of course they are, they are both horseracing and both come under the rules of horseracing.
And you’re right in that a 2-tortoise 20 yard sprint over the back yard would be a damn sight more interesting than a lot of jumps rubbish, this afternoons farce with Ashkazar having a jog round a track in front of a couple of milk cart horses under the guise of a jumps race, for one.
Each to their own though, if people want to spend a day at some jumps meeting full of 3 or 4 runner processions in slow motion with only the prospect of falls and injuries to provide some variation between their reminiscing of arkle and when horses ruled the roads, then that is entirely up to them.
The fact their day may be cancelled before it starts but only when you get there or at any time during the afternoon can only provide more time for talking about the good old days.
Graysons, who cares if an AW card is more ‘competitive’ than a poor Jumps card? It just means that you have two sh*ite cards – no point in trying to differentiate between them.
Maybe, maybe not… but on the example afternoon given it would take only the most hardcore to favour a three-runner novices’ hurdle – containing a brick outhouse running over the wrong course and trip, an ordinary penalised double-seeker and a nutjob from bumpers – over a 12-runner 0-100 Fibresand handicap in which nothing could be written off and plenty remained open to progression over the trip and surface.
You know where my allegiances lie code-wise, Grass, and nor are they ever likely to change. But even I couldn’t help but regard the rump of that Kempton fixture this time around as pretty depressing, in all honesty.
The sh*te and onions fare at Towcester last Sunday was reassuringly compelling for me, though, make no mistake about that. An afternoon’s highlight of a tight-knit 0-105 2m3f handicap chase rammed full of previous course winners? Tick, yes please!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
As I’m sure I’ve mentioned here before, it’s amazing how those who purport to detest ‘AW racing’ have no problem at all with the Breeders Cup and the Dubai Carnival. AP
Alan, some of us are consistent – my views on both the Breeders Cup, American racing in general and, to a lesser extent, the Dubai festival and have been duly recorded on this forum.
Credit where it’s due, Paul – that battle of wits between Dubai Meydan, Steve Drowne and the Kempton stalls handlers was the most compelling pieces of telly I’ve seen all week!
gc
Compelling!!!! It was an absolute bl**dy disgrace – the race was already over twenty minutes late off and they were pussyfooting around with that beast – it should have been withdrawn.
The fact a recalcitrant beast like that can then go on and win the race says a great deal about how “competitive” the race actually was.
To quote Lester Piggott – “The best thing you can do is put a bit of lead in his right ear.”
Neither have I heard a single word of anything other than praise and encouragement for AW racing from the dozen or so people interviewed on ATR today, from trainers to owners, jockeys to pundits, etc – seems like the dissenters on here are in the minority.
This presumably being a feature praising or, even worse, "celebrating" 20 years of all weather racing broadcast on a station who is closely linked to 75% (or 80% when Great Leighs was around) of the all weather courses.
They aren’t exactly going to be critical are they?
Of course they are, they are both horseracing and both come under the rules of horseracing.
Billiards and snooker are both played on a baize table, and are both governed by the WPBSA. You can guess my next question, I’m sure.
……this afternoons farce with Ashkazar having a jog round a track in front of a couple of milk cart horses under the guise of a jumps race, for one.
Each to their own though, if people want to spend a day at some jumps meeting full of 3 or 4 runner processions in slow motion with only the prospect of falls and injuries to provide some variation between their reminiscing of arkle and when horses ruled the roads, then that is entirely up to them.
The fact their day may be cancelled before it starts but only when you get there or at any time during the afternoon can only provide more time for talking about the good old days.
It’s an aesthetic argument, simon – with the above drivel clearly borne from the bowels of a mind, addled by years of watching something marginally less fulfilling than indexing one’s belly-button fluff.
We will take our modest novice chases, thank you very much (where even the poorest of animals will display bags of courage), over the spectacle of the same 15 horses meeting each other for the 15th time in 15 weeks, to decide which is the fastest slow horse on the day.
All-Weather racing is unique amongst sports, in that it can induce repetitive strain injury to the eyeball. And if the betting markets are anything to go by, it can probably have the same effect on the wallet.
Unless, of course, you’re the type of sandal-wearing, bottle-goggler who likes to spend hours every evening in the company of a clock-watch, a speed-figure access database, and a w*nking sock, unpicking form that sorts out nothing but the sh*te from the very sh*te…..in which case, such an individual is entitled to win at the track every day, because he isn’t ever going to get his podger.
Of course, the above is very-much a pantomime portrayal of the average AW fan, so no-one should take offence – it’s just imagery.
Grasshopper responded:
Unless, of course, you’re the type of tweed-wearing, bottle-goggler who likes to spend hours every evening in the company of a 1975 copy of jumps horses to follow (sponsored by Pedigree Chum, pages stuck together), photos of Arkle and Paul Nicholls, and a w*nking sock, trying to decide if Timeform or the RPR’s meaningless number is better…..in which case, such an individual is entitled to win at the track every day, because he isn’t ever going to get his podger.
Fair comment GH, one day AW racing will even make it to your neck of the outback which will give another option other than the above and banjo practice.
) can hold jumps races on everything from dirt to packed snow without utter carnage ensuing, it can’t be beyond the wit of British racetracks to follow suit on a more conventional non-grass surface.
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