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Walter Swinburn

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Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 34 total)
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  • #1616
    bear
    Member
    • Total Posts 143

    The choirboy quoted in todays Post has set himself a target of 50 winners this season. From a stable of only 120 horses I think he might be tilting at windmills!!!!

    Can’t wait for John Gosden to set himself the target of winning the Brittania stakes at Royal Ascot from a stable of 150 bluebloods or Ed Dunlop to have a target of winning a group 3 from a similar stable of immaculately bred thoroughbreds! No doubt Mick Channon will manage to bottom a hundred + classically bred 2 year olds as well this year.

    How these serial underachievers continue to blag their way along is beyond me! I wouldn’t trust any of them to train a dog to s**t

    on the floor!

    #58133
    cormack15cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8783

    Harsh stuff Bear. Gosden has a great record of big race wins while Dunlop’s record is also beginning to stack up.  

    #58134
    Alderbrook
    Member
    • Total Posts 349

    What about a list of trainers you would trust to train a dog to etc etc (though why you would ask them to do it is beyond me…)?

    #58135
    beauzam
    Member
    • Total Posts 80

    Mineshaft-We always really liked him-Gosden.Thats why you start him 8 times as a baby without ever getting his head in front and never run him on the polytrack or sand.2003 Horse of the year and near unbeatable.<br>Collier Hill-Dumped out unraced.new connections require medical treatment from recurrent dizzy spells induced by collecting cheques.<br>Les Arcs-Kicked off at either 8 or 10f well beyond his subsequent optimal group1 winning trip of 6f.<br>further back Halling post Goden record compared to his previous.<br>Thats what I can recall off the top of my head but I invite further contributions.Turning group horses into handicappers and winning early season "classics" which amount to little more than glorified conditions events with a groaning arsenal is a pen portrait in failure.Add to that look how wayward and ungenuine his colts race and the only conclusion is that Bear’s colorful description was much too lenient.

    #58137
    roryrory
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2685

    Bear and Beauzam ~ harsh, but fair. I’d like to see a table of prizemoney won by trainer as a factor of total cost of horses in the yard. That would open a few eyes.

    #58140
    seabird
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2924

    I think that’s an excellent idea, rory!!!:biggrin:

    #58141
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    Surely though most of Gosden’s blue-bloods don’t pass through the sales ring.

    #58144
    yeatsyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2923

    Think Mark Johnston would be at the, or near the top of any such table.

    #58146
    Smithy
    Member
    • Total Posts 720

    Quote: from cormack15 on 10:02 pm on May 9, 2007[br]Harsh stuff Bear. Gosden has a great record of big race wins while Dunlop’s record is also beginning to stack up.  <br>

    Benny The Dip, Lahan, Shantou………..which of Gosden’s many other Classic winners have i missed?

    Given the ammunition at his disposal, he is hardly Vincent O’Brien.

    (Edited by Smithy at 4:27 pm on May 10, 2007)

    #58148
    Galejade
    Member
    • Total Posts 185

    This is a difficult area. Stoute – who is suly an excellent trainer? – allowed Alkasaad and Sublimity to be sold ( without finding another buyer to pick them up and so retain them in his stable ) whilst the excellent Mark Johnston let Darsalam ( another G1 winner) go for only £6500.

    I guess if you have massive strings of horses and have to dispose of 60 to 70 horses a year you are bound to let a few ‘diamonds’ go ?

    #58150
    Lingfield
    Member
    • Total Posts 919

    All the big owner/breeder operations and top trainers have a culling process whereby they dispose of the ones who aren’t top class, who are exposed or don’t fit in with their breeding programmes.<br>Inevitably some with ability slip through the net or realise their potential elsewhere where they receive more individual attention away from a large string.<br>For example I think Abdulla/Juddmonte are a very professional operation, but sold subsequent Group winner Vortex and useful dual purpose horse Self Defense for around £20k

    #58152
    Lingfield
    Member
    • Total Posts 919

    Quote: from Smithy on 4:22 pm on May 10, 2007[br]

    Quote: from cormack15 on 10:02 pm on May 9, 2007[br]Harsh stuff Bear. Gosden has a great record of big race wins while Dunlop’s record is also beginning to stack up.  <br>

    Benny The Dip, Lahan, Shantou………..which of Gosden’s many other Classic winners have i missed?

    Given the ammunition at his disposal, he is hardly Vincent O’Brien.

    (Edited by Smithy at 4:27 pm on May 10, 2007)<br>

    <br>Sympathy with the general point being made but Oasis Dream was champion sprinter

    #58154
    Nick Yorke
    Member
    • Total Posts 9

    I must say that John Gosden is my favourite flat trainer,however I do remember him training a rather one paced stayer called Istabraq, and sometimes wonder why he didn’t spot that this fellow was a speed horse?

    #58159
    Maxilon 5Maxilon 5
    Member
    • Total Posts 2432

    I’m sure that many, many smaller owners are glad that these megalithic stables sell horses which, with different caring regimes and closer attention can win good races. The whole reselling game would collapse if all they ever sold was the duds.  

    Michael Hill, (owner of Quito), may have brought a few slow horses from the Maktoums, but he’s more than paid for them with the wins this great character achieved.  

    Btw, have Coolmore ever sold a horse who went on to become a significant winner for someone else?

    #58160
    beauzam
    Member
    • Total Posts 80

    I don’t think Stoute is the trainer of colts today,that he once was.

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