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did they say what happened to him?<br>its very sad, it was clear from his 2 hurdle starts in the summer that he had lost his sparkle. shame he wont enjoy retirement hunting or something
Quote: from Racing Daily on 11:04 pm on Feb. 10, 2007[br] Those outsiders being withdrawn from the Derby is an exact comparison to this.  What makes this any different?  Nothing IMO.<br>
I take it you mean horses being eliminated from the Derby based on ability in the event of a maximum field, the same would have applied to yesterdays race.<br>The most amazing thing about this is the lack of information about it from the racing media. Nothing from C4 or RUK yesterday who covered the meeting or the Racing Post today.<br>Is the horse dead and what did it die from?<br>
its very disapointing that there is so little about it. but i expect its being hushed down because of the bad image. very disapointing
I guess it’s unacceptable for him to be put down from a racing incident, yet it would be, if the same had happened in retirement.
Does anybody know if the horse would accept retirement, he was a ‘busy’ sort?
Although racing out of his grade (and many do), was he thrashed to keep competitive?
Would he have been better off having a hard race giving weight away to younger horses around somewhere like Leicester?
Perhaps it would have been best for him from a winning perspective to be retired, but unless there is cruelty involved, what is the problem? If he had refused to race, or tried to refuse, or just show a genuine dislike of racing from tapes up, then that would be the proper and only option. In his two previous hurdle races, there wasn’t much wrong with his enthusiasm, was there?
Eccentric he may well be regarded, but there will be nobody more gutted than Oliver Carter after the events. The horse was bred to race, he had spent his life racing, so until he shows connections that he has had enough, then let him race. Perhaps he wouldn’t appreciate the options anyway.
As for Nicholls, what right does he have to pass comment on other horses? It wasn’t so long ago that he was racing horses with perhaps unacceptable frequency, or in conditions that were unsuitable, to try and win the Champion trainers title and lost a nice young horse in the process. (Forget the name).
i think you will find venn ottery was raced with ‘excessive frequency’ as you put it, over trips that he never ever showed he stayed. i agree he enjoyed his racing, but he clearly was a danger to himself and his jockey. its a shame he didnt run over 2 miles around the smaller tracks in his day. <br>watching the race yesterday on channel 4, venn ottery looked poor in his coat, in no way looked fit and looked like a rather depressed animal. imo. <br>in the racing post his owner said he wont be beaten from a lack of pace, and he wont be disgraced. yet the horse was outpaced from tape fall. <br>his death could, and should have been avoided
Dave, they didn’t say what had happened to him, so everyone is still a little confused but as you say, it is probably being hushed up by authorities.
He should have been retired, whether he enjoyed his racing or not. He was an old horse who looked even older than he was.
He dies trying to do something he was not capable of doing anymore and the owner and current trainer should have realised this, there is no stopping some people in this game. The poor horse had finished tailed off in point to point, so what was the reason in running him at level never mind a lesser race at leicester or something.
Griff, that is the problem, he always tried HIS best and this time his best wasn’t good enough, as i’m pretty sure he wasn’t put down from breaking a leg or anything but something far more serious.
He didn’t deserve to lose his life like this.
Carter wants the book chucking at him.
Thanks stormont. <br>its very sad to see things like this happen <br>if he didnt ‘break down’ i should think he had a major bleed in his lungs which would have been caused by working harder than he was capable. effectively slowley drowning. a heart attack would have killed him and not resulted in him being shot, and i cant think of much else they wouldnt have treated him for. even if it was a tendon they would have rested him surely
"He dies trying to do something he was not capable of doing anymore"
How hard was he trying and when his chance was gone, was he forced, coerced to try even harder? I don’t believe he was. He would have been expected to try harder in a lower grade race at Leicester than he would at Newbury.
From his two hurdle races. Doesn’t read like a horse out of love with the game, unnecessarily forced to compete when his chance had gone.
Venn Ottery<br>steadied start, took keen hold in rear, headway 6th, shortlived effort 3 out, soon faded.
Venn Ottery, having looked as if he might be a factor when closing on the leaders three out, had run his race by the next.
"He should have been retired, whether he enjoyed his racing or not. He was an old horse…."<br> <br>Have you ever thought that the horse may actually like racing, like the training regime and all that goes with it. What has age got to do with it, it’s what goes on in their mind that matters? As long as they are physically able to do the job (whether they can be competitive is irrelevant) and the owner pays the bills, they should be allowed to remain in training and race.
Can’t disagree that he was out of his depth at this stage of his career, but retirement wasn’t the absolute conclusion.
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sorry griff, but your talking rubbish!!<br>a 2 mile chase around Leicester is not run at the pace the game spirit was yesterday. venn ottery was going as fast as his legs would carry him. Do you actually think he was just toddling around at the back because thats as fast as he wanted to go??<br>horses are animals, and therefore dont understand when they are past it, humans can, and his owner/trainer were stupid to run him in such a race. he couldnt even win a point to point. he looked a shadow of his former self.<br>i suppose atleast they get the insurance payout now he is dead which they wouldnt have got had he been retired. <br>
With all due respect Dave, if we’re going to talk rubbish then you win the competition with your final remark. Well done, I’ll accept defeat with honour.
If you or I compete in a 400m race against Olympic athletes, do we run any faster or slower than against members of the local athletic club? Do we exert any more energy in either race, I suspect not?
If we had a man with a big whip doing his best to encourage us to go faster than we actually can to compete with the Olympic runners, then there may be cause for concern. Like Venn Ottery, we haven’t, so what is the problem? You and I both do our best under the relevant conditions.
i think we are going to have to agree to disagree. <br>chases are not about how fast you can go in each furlong but the fastest over 2 miles, in this case. <br>a lower grade race requires less speed throughout the race, so a more comfortable pace.<br>also. he could almost go the gallop for a short while, he just couldnt sustain it for 2 miles. that was his undoing
I don’t really have a lot to add to all that except that watching him run yesterday was so sad even before he pulled up. When I heard he’d been dismounted I feared the worst, as it turned out, quite rightly. It seemed inevitable somehow that he’d die that way and that shouldn’t happen. You shouldn’t be so certain that a horse was out of his depth or past retirement age that when his death is announced, you’re not surprised. There’s somethng wrong about that.
In your example of running against world class athletes, rather than those from your local athletics club, I would hazard a guess that your performances would differ. Assuming your brain isn’t telling you ‘you’re nothing compared to these guys, give it up now’ it is not beyond belief that you would try a little harder than would ordinarily be the case; the adrenaline in your body pushing you a little further than you thought possible.
This could be detrimental, as well as beneficial, of course.
But when you consider horses are pack animals, and will naturally try to keep up with those around them, then I would say it’s a very real ‘threat’, if that’s the right word.
I don’t have a view, not least because we don’t exactly what happened to Venn Ottery yesterday, as to whether over exertion has prematurely ended his life, but the simple fact that he shouldn’t have been in the race can’t be overlooked. Whether it’s to blame for his untimely demise, or not.
When Venn Ottery went to Paul Nicholls, his attitude completely changed. He was lively and alert, and looked prepared to go out on track and give his all. Carter proved his lack of concern for the horse’s welfare by removing him from such a positive environment and proceeding to run him into the ground under alternative care.
If, like Dr Pritchard, Carter had entered him in the race to plod round in his own time to collect (almost) guaranteed prize money, then I would be less inclined to label the old goat as a raving loon. It’s not a practice I like, as such horses can be a danger to those rated far in excess, but it can be forgiven up to a certain point. But when decisions to run horses are completely non-sensical, with the horse clearly not enjoying himself and his form showing that he’s never close to his best with Carter, it has to be a matter for concern.
On this front, Carter shouldn’t be given the right to train, or enter, horses.
Despite what may happen in some schools, would you reasonably expect ‘larger’ children to be pushed as hard as those regularly filling the football and rugby teams? Would you expect said children to be pushed as hard as those much fitter than they, and expect them to be judged to the same standard? Probably not; given their state of fitness it would seem illogical, whilly unfair and unnecessarily cruel.
If Venn Ottery has been put down, owing to racing related issues, I’m not surprised nothing has come to light. Much like every other sporting governing body in this country, the HRA seem completely hopeless when it comes to dealing with problems of any magnitude.
(Edited by LetsGetRacing at 7:23 pm on Feb. 11, 2007)
Very sad. Has there been any independent confirmation that the horse was put down? I can’t see anything on the RP website or anywhere else.
My only point is LetsGetRacing is that I doubt Venn Ottery would have differentiated between the two, to him it was just another race.
Did he exert more effort in the hurdle races mentioned that the race on Saturday, I suspect he did. I don’t know the circumstances of his death and would agree with your points concerning racing authorities, but I cannot believe that the race being a class or two above him, was the cause of his demise anymore than a race elsewhere.
"It seemed inevitable somehow that he’d die that way and that shouldn’t happen"
Sorry Burroughhill, I really cannot see how you can draw that conclusion to the end of Venn Ottery, anymore than you can about hundreds of other horses who actually race to their limits on a regular basis.
Just my opinion.
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