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I know it is not the only reason punters think the game is bent but…
I wonder how many on here think to themselves "because I can’t make a profit by studying form, nobody can, therefore the game must be bent".
Mark
The Ginger PreacherValue Is EverythingApracing
If you read my post carefully ‘we’ would not need to establish whether I think everybody in racing is corrupt. I haven’t even said the majority.
I’m afraid you have muddled (or muddied) what was written:
There are very few directly involved within racing who do not know what is going on in certain quarters.
That does not make them party to it.
Some might argue that if known, and not reported, they are nearly as bad. I don’t hold this view because without absolute proof (and jobs to keep) surely they would be foolish to do so.
So I’m left Like Rob, wondering why you bother
I bother because I care about the integrity of racing, and those who work within. If rotten apples are left in the barrel, believing they are ‘untouchable’, what happens?
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So I’m left Like Rob, wondering why you bother
I bother because I care about the integrity of racing, and those who work within. If rotten apples are left in the barrel, believing they are ‘untouchable’, what happens?
Your all encompassing, but oh so vague statement
‘There are very few directly involved within racing who do not know what is going on in certain quarters.’
seems to damn those ‘directly involved with racing’ as a whole on the basis of association with the sport!
You care about the integrity racing, a laudable attitude, but if your previous posts are anything to go by you seem to think there are so many rotten apples in the barrel that you would chuck the whole barrel out!
Rob
quote] hear of people stopping horses to get them down the handicap all the time. they are either run out of there distance or never put into the race. a large percentage of new horses are stopped 3 times as they are given there handicap mark judged on its 3 runs you will notice if you read the form that most handicap debutants have run for eg, 6f, 6f, 6f then handicap debut 1 mile gambled stupidly and romps in. hapens all the time. makes sense for the owner really , why get handicapped to the top of its game when you can get a handicap mark around 20-30lbs less what it should be.
you gotta be wise to these goings on and keep a eye out for handicap debutantsWell kj that’s very interesting and illuminating although it would appear that you omitted to check the stats for handicap debutants before you wrote this. I presume you are referring to Sir M Prescott and actually even he is not as good at it as rumour has it and at very prohibitive prices
I just saw the race. The horse seemed to have a severe aversion to the kick-back. After it had started slowly Robert Winston could certainly not be criticised for lack of effort. The fact that it pulled up suggested a problem, swallowed a bit of the track material possibly?
Presumably the stewards enquired and there should be something on the BHA website in the next couple of days.
Rob
The horse seemed to have a severe aversion to the kick-back.
Rob
Fair play to those that were psychic that predicted this before the race. Of course it’s possible that it was on-course shrewdies that saw he wouldn’t handle the surface when he went down, but I doubt it. I think it’s plainly obvious the horse had a problem, the bit that leaves the sour taste is that some people were able to predict that was going to be the case and at the same time, back off the boards who, admittedly was a standout on his best form, support a horse that had been running like a deceased yak on recent outings.
sixfieldsboy
That’s a ludicrous post. Are you suggesting that someone like Alan Potts, who has made a comfortable living from racing only made his money from being ‘inside the loop’? If anything he made his money from standing back, having a good look and staying out of ‘the loop’.
I’ve had successful seasons myself and the nearest I’ve been to the inside of a throughbred stable is when my brother acquired a couple of retired racehorses.
Pray, what other reason would Michael Owen have acquired a thoroughbred stable?
Rob
The horse seemed to have a severe aversion to the kick-back.
Rob
Fair play to those that were psychic that predicted this before the race. Of course it’s possible that it was on-course shrewdies that saw he wouldn’t handle the surface when he went down, but I doubt it. I think it’s plainly obvious the horse had a problem, the bit that leaves the sour taste is that some people were able to predict that was going to be the case and at the same time, back off the boards who, admittedly was a standout on his best form, support a horse that had been running like a deceased yak on recent outings.
True David and not a satisfactory situation, but we are talking about one race here. I suspect it wouldn’t have taken a stack of money to turn the odds around in this event. I presume it’s not exactly packed otu at Southwell this afternoon?
Rob
quote/ Ginger tipster is a bookies wet dream. It’s him and his form book against the world!
It’s no secret that the only realistic way to make decent money from racing is to get ‘inside’ the loop. Why do you think the likes of Harry Findlay the self confessed "dog man" got into racing ownership? Why do you think Michael Owen bought his own stables? For the love of horses alone. Do me a favour!
]Oh Dear Oh Dear I think bookies nightmare are the words you’re missing assessing and getting value is how to beat the book..Michael Owen what a wonderful example he’s been quoted as losing in millions. Now -how do you think these coups inside information or whatever are based . Do they say we’ll keep running this donkey down the field get a low OR and bingo it’ll win. ER no- how do you know it’s better than the rest of the field (or that they haven’t been doing the same for that matter) Sorry the only way you can assess your horse is on form and public form at that because what your animal does at home can’t trusted until confirmed on the course as many morning glories will testify. So there you are it all comes back to form in the end. A final point yes it IS possible to make money backing horses but it’s certainly NOT by listening all the rubbish about inside informationsixfieldsboy
Believe me if I bet I am not gambling, and the inference that I do seems rathr insulting. I only bet where I believe I have an edge. On occasions that edge may be illusory but on other occasions it will be stronger than I thought. My betting these days tends to be on jump racing in Scotland and the North, on a group of horses that I am familiar with.
I am more than capable of using my loaf, and that’s why I have a chance of coming out ahead.
If your posts truly reflect what you think about racing then I do wonder why you bother to waste time on the sport. But then I’ve covered this ground in discussion with Nor1 as well.
I will continue to bet where I consider I can gain an edge and I will be confident that I can come out ahead. More to the point though I treat ‘inside information’ with a good deal of distain since it is often tainted by self interest and the source’s bias. In fact it often suits me that ‘information’ makes a horse shorter odds than it should be if it makes my considered selection a longer price. I included Ryminster in my Kelso preview recently, posted well before the Race (yuk, I sound like a tipster!) because I’dspotted a pattern in the horse’s form that the market seemed to haev ignored. It won at 14/1. That’s the sort of bet which gives me a chance of coming out ahead and will continue to do so.
I don’t agree with some of the views expressed by a number of posters on this thread, but I’d be only to happy to discuss the matters with them on course sometime. If anyone is coming to Musselburgh this Friday maybe thay can point out to me all the shennanigans that are going on at the meeting, who is pulling the strokes and when. Alternatively the only shennanigans I’m likely to see is Mrs McGregors More Shennanigans, though don’t give it much of a thought unless it’s droppedcto the lowest level handicap.
There’s clearly no convincing some. If you want to see demons you can find them or imagine them. They exist but there are a good deal less of them than some would have us believe.
Rob
It hardly takes the intuition of Einstein to realise that those who insist the only way to make betting pay is by being on the ‘inside’ are those who have tried and failed to make their betting pay by the customary means of formbook, pair of eyes and nose to the grindstone. Rather than admit to their own limitations they seek the comfort of laying the blame for their failure elsewhere.
The game’s bent! the losers wail. ‘Twas ever the case
The fact that it pulled up suggested a problem, swallowed a bit of the track material possibly?
Either that, or another physical setback. Do remember that this was just his second run back after some 26 months off the track, following on from his reappearance in a Sandown bumper.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Fist of Fury 2k8
It is you who is talking sh*te.
There are very few directly involved within racing who do not know what is going on in certain quarters.
Instructions to deliberately stop a horse are not written down. Besides, a horse can be stopped without the assistance of the jockey. I’ve got no problem with running horses over the wrong distance etc. That’s the fault of the handicap system.
What really gets my goat are the protests that racing is almost straight. It is not and there are people out there who do not know this; who gamble to excess; they get caught up in the excitement of racing; they’re not all "working class…."; and they end up losing their homes and families who are the ones who suffer.
Those within feed off those outside. They are leeches and their callous mindset is disgusting.
And no, I’m not dribbling over my cassock.
Yes you are dribbling over your cossak…….I have on severaloccasion known jockeyswho stopped horse and had bookies lay them for them……I am talkng about being right there with them when it happened but it is far and few between.
As a very famous jockey trainer once told me "It’s not stopping a horse it’s having one that’sgood enough to stop"
Sure guys get info of the lads…for what it’s worth…….this isn’t trying or that isn’t trying which the majority of the time is BS the horse just isn’t good enough or has been held up in his work.
You shhowme any recording of any race and if one is deliberatly stopped I could spot it with my eyes shut and there are thousands of people like me……love to see you pull the eyes over Macbets eyes when he went racing……….everyone and there uncle is waiting for the thing to come out and they end uphalf the price they should be.
Of course it goes on but usually at lowly meetings where desperados are trying to make easy money but it is nowhere near as rife as what the Saturday betting Shop punter wouldhave you believe . Furthermore when one is getting stopped half the racecourse knows by the time the tapes go up as there is always someone tipping of a friend who has a freind.
There are too many people who don’t know the difference between ahorse being stopped and a horse given an easy time of it because he needs the run.
Nevertika was a classic example…first time out he was never put into the race with a chance and even if they had he probaly would have finished where he did as he badly needed the run.
The punters never saw it that way and the word was "Wasn’t off" They got stuck into him the other day and gottheir fingers burned when he was a well beaten second. Kate Walton ran him over hurdles because he need a confidence booster …."win if you can but don’t knock him about" rings a bell………punters being punters got it into their heads there was a big touch on when all the time KW was only interested in preparing him to go chasing again..She done nothing wrong as far as I’m concerned and had the welfare of the horse in mind first and foremorst.underatd that and you will understand horse racing a lot better. Incidents like that happen every day but it doesn’t mean racing is crooked…..Cheers!!
Kate Walton
Yes you are dribbling over your cossak…….I have on several occasions known jockeys who stopped horse and had bookies lay them for them……I am talking about being right there with them when it happened but it is far and few between.
As a very famous jockey trainer once told me "It’s not stopping a horse it’s having one that’s good enough to stop"
Are you prepared to name names and did you report this to the relevant authorities at the time?
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