- This topic has 24 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 10 months ago by
.
- Posts
Treve looked to dislike the ground there today but the question marks are now getting larger after two defeats on the bounce.
Beaten narrowly by a multiple-Group One winner, who had had the benefit of a previous race under his belt, on her reappearance and then not letting herself down on the firmest ground she has so far encountered…
Yeah, let’s panic.
She won the Arc receiving a very generous 3yo allowance, and Frankie keeps on quoting "she the highest rated horse in the World".
My speed figures for her are not that impressive, bar one race…
18Jun14 Ascot 10fGd-Fm G1
96
27Apr14 Lon 11VSft G1 142K
100
06Oct13 Lon 12Sft G1 2229K
84
15Sep13 Lon 12Sft G1 162K
72
16Jun13 Cha 11Gd 3yG1 464K
110
15May13 Sai 8Gd 3y 13K
50
It seems like a major overreaction to read anything negative into these two defeats – she has enhanced her reputation if anything in my eyes.
Giving away fitness to a horse who rarely loses when he can engage a battle, then all at sea on the fastest ground she has ever encountered against two pure fast ground specialists in Magician and The Fugue – two storming efforts imo. Treve beat the previous track record at Ascot today.
With the typical Longchamp ground being fairly soft, I’d take the 5-1 Treve over 5-1 Australia for the Arc in a heartbeat.
Her best form is in races like the Vermeille and Arc over a mile and a half in soft so I wouldn’t write her off. That said she isn’t the superhorse some reckon she is.
It seems like a major overreaction to read anything negative into these two defeats – she has enhanced her reputation if anything in my eyes.
Giving away fitness to a horse who rarely loses when he can engage a battle, then all at sea on the fastest ground she has ever encountered against two pure fast ground specialists in Magician and The Fugue – two storming efforts imo. Treve beat the previous track record at Ascot today.
With the typical Longchamp ground being fairly soft, I’d take the 5-1 Treve over 5-1 Australia for the Arc in a heartbeat.
If the horse needs a mile and a half and softer ground, then why the hell would you run her when both sets of conditions are against her?
Both times this year all we have heard about in the build up is how fast she is, how she is the best in the world and how she is going to blow the opposition away.
She was backed from 7/4 (which I commented might be a risky bet after her losing her unbeaten record and with her main target being the Arc) into 8/13 today despite the ground drying out.
I took her on today with Mukhadram to small stakes but others clearly waded into Treve and I doubt many would share your sentiment that she enhanced her reputation today.
As it stands we have ONE race where Treve looked special and people were quick enough to put the "All Time" crown on her head on the back of that. Now the "Guinness Book Of Excuses" has been pulled from the shelf and well thumbed for material to defend her with.
I blame Frankie myself
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Maybe she gets on better with her other jockey?
Just beat me to it Moe.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Fact is that she is unbeaten under Thierry Jarnet. Every time Thierry rode her, he rode her to perfection. Why would you change the jockey if the trainer is still the same? Mr. Jarnet has done nothing wrong and he knows her for a much longer time than Frankie.
Plus fillies in hot conditions turns out to be very problematic at times.
I´m not quite sure that she was such a brilliant winner of the Arc as many people would like her to be.
She probably won the race because the gelding wasn`t eligible to run and because the rest of the field was and is just a little bit above average. I´m not convinced that Treve is that kind of genuine like The Fugue for example.Now the "Guinness Book Of Excuses" has been pulled from the shelf and well thumbed for material to defend her with.
I blame Frankie myself
I was informed that the horse does not like Frankie’s voice. Connections tried putting in ear plugs but Frankie found them down at the start and pulled them out.
Treve will win the Arc by 2+ lengths. What will beat her on soft ground over 12f?
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Surely one might question why NOT beat Australia and Kingman when ridden by Fallon and failed to reproduce that running with Hughes in the saddle? Was Kingman’ s turn of foot any more impressive than Australia’s in the Derby? Or is this too much reality for some of us on the forum? Last year Magician won the Irish Two Thousand guineas just as smoothly as did Kingman this year. I for one would pick Australia on his Guineas running to beat Kingman if they ever meet. You can pick the course and distance.Kingman is good but the Gosden coolaid is so sweet and fun to drink than we may be intoxicated by it.
Forgive me for getting off the track by the reference to Treve being upset by the change of jockey.
Definitely not finished. It was clear as day she hated the conditions yesterday but to her credit still plugged on for 3rd.
However, you would hope the run on firmer ground today does not leave its mark on her. Her trainer mentioned problems with her feet in the past so there must be some concern how she comes out of this.
If she is fine for it and given targets back on easier ground she will be back to winning ways.
One thing is for sure, she is no Zarkava
Definitely not finished. It was clear as day she hated the conditions yesterday but to her credit still plugged on for 3rd.
However, you would hope the run on firmer ground today does not leave its mark on her. Her trainer mentioned problems with her feet in the past so there must be some concern how she comes out of this.
If she is fine for it and given targets back on easier ground she will be back to winning ways.
One thing is for sure, she is no Zarkava
The trainer has said that it wasn’t the ground to blame and that something wasn’t quite right with the horse’s action.
Frankie has suggested a summer break is possible and that would seem very sensible, rather than coming back to the same track and probably similar ground for the King George VI QE in July.
If things do pan out that way I think Treve has to win well in one of the trials in order to get back on track for the Arc.
Good luck to those who are choosing to keep the faith regarding the Arc for Treve but tread carefully at odds of 5/4 for the King George VI would be my advice, as I have doubts she will line up.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Definitely not finished. It was clear as day she hated the conditions yesterday but to her credit still plugged on for 3rd.
However, you would hope the run on firmer ground today does not leave its mark on her. Her trainer mentioned problems with her feet in the past so there must be some concern how she comes out of this.
If she is fine for it and given targets back on easier ground she will be back to winning ways.
One thing is for sure, she is no Zarkava
She was last year ….in fact you could say Zarkava never stuck around to be a Treve
SHL
With all due respect, Steve, the jury would certainly still be out on the ground for many regardless of the trainers comments.
Whatever the case she was not quite right, be that her feet problems, ground, both or something else.
She has seemingly not run on that type of ground before and looked ill at ease, the Prix de Diane conditions are hard to gauge as reliable information out of French racing is none existent.
They either ran on a conveyor belt that day or the race was not run at the advertised distance so the race time trying to understand the conditions is useless. Point being, I would assume she has not run on anything but easing ground until yesterday.
With all due respect, Steve, the jury would certainly still be out on the ground for many regardless of the trainers comments.
Whatever the case she was not quite right, be that her feet problems, ground, both or something else.
She has seemingly not run on that type of ground before and looked ill at ease, the Prix de Diane conditions are hard to gauge as reliable information out of French racing is none existent.
They either ran on a conveyor belt that day or the race was not run at the advertised distance so the race time trying to understand the conditions is useless. Point being, I would assume she has not run on anything but easing ground until yesterday.
We are free to disagree with the trainer but she should know the horse a little better than we pundits do.
Ms Head-Maarek said the ground was fast when Treve won the Prix De Diane and that is why they are not blaming the going. Trainer and jockey should know what the ground was like because, as you say, it can be hard to be sure from reading reports on French races.
It could be that soft ground is ideal for Treve but there was no suggestion of that after her Arc triumph and the betting showed no concern whatsoever about the much faster surface being a negative going into her latest race.
She could still bounce back on softer ground but she has not lived up to the pre-season hype that suggested she had been fitted with a Formula One engine over the winter.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.