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Reported in the Telegraph this morning, that Towcester intend to ban the use of the whip starting from next October. Their plan is to run all races at the track under the rules that currently apply to the ‘hands and heels’ series.
More detail here :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/horser … track.html
AP
Good for Towcester. Let’s try it out and see what happens. Whether the sport likes it or not, the rules will change eventually as general public’s perceptions change.
Interesting that out of all the people mentioned in the article John McCririck’s isn’t given. He’s been talking about this for some time now.
Excellent idea from Towcester and hopefully it will go ahead. Clearly a far better initiative to move things forward than the reported collection of data on individual jockeys supposedly to find repeat ‘offenders’ who should already have been dealt with if the present rules were actually working. A complete waste of effort by the BHA which will do nothing other than draw the affair out longer than necessary – perhaps that is what they are hoping to allow the furore surrounding the National to die down.
Has anyone heard a coherent argument from a jockey against change? They seem to have two problems, one appearing to measure up to the macho image of being strong in a finish which to them involves using a whip and secondly the perceived extra effort it will require riding hands and heels. Good luck boys pushing up that Towcester hill.
Another initiative from an innovative racecourse to be roundly applauded
The soft spot I’ve had for Alexander Hesketh ever since his failed venture with Big Brit Bikes grows ever softer
The ‘whip debate’ war of Words is now close to filling a wing of the British Library, so Action with a big bold capital A is long overdue
What an intriguing course on which to ban the whip.
Will those knackered 3-mile chasers clamber up that hill under arm-urging as slowly as they do when smacked
I’ll be watching with keen interest
A few lead, most follow…I wonder?
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Much too soon for any applause. Let’s wait and see if the idea works before the standing ovation. All this popular opinion bandwagoning has not been benficial to the sport in the past.
Strung out fields with very few starters or finishers will quickly put this experiment to bed.
One unintended consequence that Towcester will need to address – at present the rules of racing state that the winners of hands and heels races are treated the same the winners of conditional riders races – i.e no penalty in handicaps up to the time the new mark kicks in, no penalty for wins in novice events.
So in theory, a novice hurdler or chaser could run up a sequence at Towcester and still be able to compete at level weights with maidens.
AP
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I’m struggling to comprehend the idea that people actually believe this selfish, naive and potentially industry-shattering PR stunt to be a
good
thing?
All banning the whip will prove is that horses can run without being hit, that races will be won without horses being hit and that people will bet on races where horses aren’t hit. What it won’t prove is how the whip effects horses, what (if any) discomfort they feel and how the thoroughbred will prosper (or indeed suffer) in the long term when soft, timid bridle horses like Harchibald are suddenly at a distinct advantage.
How does that benefit racing? And what about the policing of non-triers?
It’s difficult to argue whether the use of the whip should be prohibited or not, because both parties – those for and against – remain so unutterably stubborn. Each thinks they are right and neither thinks they have to provide qualitative and quantifiable evidence in support. For every ‘the public perceives racing to be cruel’ there’s someone within racing waiting to say ‘until we’re told otherwise, we’re bang on’.
Only the battle of egos that ensued when Brough Scott met David Cassidy made for more painful viewing than this.
The BHA, ever-more devoid of power it seems, needs to conduct meaningful and relevant research in to what pressure – both physical and mental – the whip exerts on a horse. Cost shouldn’t be a factor. Whatever the current ‘public perception’ may be, ensuring it becomes/remains positive is vital to the ongoing success of the sport.
Only when we have figures in front of us can we make an informed decision. Until then, the likes of Towcester are only going to damage racing, rather than improve it.
One unintended consequence that Towcester will need to address – at present the rules of racing state that the winners of hands and heels races are treated the same the winners of conditional riders races – i.e no penalty in handicaps up to the time the new mark kicks in, no penalty for wins in novice events.
So in theory, a novice hurdler or chaser could run up a sequence at Towcester and still be able to compete at level weights with maidens.
AP
To be honest, AP, I’ve never understood why a winner of a conditional riders race doesn’t carry a penalty. If it’s to encourage plenty of runners in those races then presumably Towcester will be keen to stick with the rule to ensure big fields that enable them to claim the experiment is a success.
I’ve never been to Towcester [to be honest I haven’t a clue where it is] but have always had an interest in the place, having met someone who worked there many years ago in a bar in Kefalonia..can’t remember much about the conversation
. I very much came away with the opinion that the place was very forward thinking and, if ever there was a prize for making a silk purse out of a sows ear [or trying to] they deserved it. Very forward thinking and innovative, and the people who work in their PR department should be head hunted by Sir Alan Sugar imo. Instead of looking at the horses in the parade ring, I think an eye will be kept on the jockeys with the biggest thigh muscles [needs to be recorded in the racecard perhaps?]. Good for them!
Has anyone heard a coherent argument from a jockey against change? They seem to have two problems, one appearing to measure up to the macho image of being strong in a finish which to them involves using a whip and secondly the perceived extra effort it will require riding hands and heels. Good luck boys pushing up that Towcester hill.
Quoted in the RP Towcester Director and ex trainer Charlie Brooks says "We don’t actually think that jockeys are the best people to judge how other people perceive the sport"
Highly interesting.
I see that they’ve referred to the BHA on how to implement the changes so I wouldn’t take it as a given that it’ll happen. Towcester race under BHA rules. However, given the clever tactic by Towcester of publicising this before they’ve consulted it’ll be hard, in PR terms, for the BHA to block it.
All banning the whip will prove is that horses can run without being hit, that races will be won without horses being hit and that people will bet on races where horses aren’t hit.
Those things have already been proven AJ.
Wise words indeed from Sir Peter O’Sullevan (and Willie Shoemaker) in that article. (use of bold is mine)
"I’m definitely for its use for encouragement and correction, but not chastisement. On the richter scale of cruelty it doesn’t even register but it registers most regrettably cosmetically. It is often as unnecessary as it is unappealing. To say that because a horse is spoilt that we can lay into now and again is out of order. I once congratulated Willie Shoemaker on a fine winning ride in which he didn’t use his whip.
He replied: ‘I guess more horses are whipped out of the winner’s enclosure than whipped in it."
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You will see horses taking the bus to Camden Town.
Some others to Barking – Romford.This is like Kaddafi football in Libya.
He wanted each player to have his own ball, because 22 men fighting for one ball was against the jamahiria principles.- Total Posts 17716
"Each thinks they are right and neither thinks they have to provide qualitative and quantifiable evidence in support"
Absolutely true. Emotions are winning the game not facts.
I agree it will b e good , and indeed betting in running on that course , will in fact enter into a new dimension
Its impossible to see how the Bha chaps can block it , the move to publicize first is brilliant
More please
Ricky
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When Greece played Russia in 1968 we wanted the match to begin 12 noon so the Russians underperform under the sun.
To this an old sports commentator replied "let’s also give a lobster watermelon to each Soviet player".
"Lobster" watermelon is the one that looks like a rugby ball and it’s pale green with darker green lines, as opposed to the football shaped dark green ones.As we are being asked for facts here is the only one relevant to the argument. If you don’t hit a horse with a whip you cannot possibly inflict any pain. No need for any time wasted on long drawn out pointless surveys.
Get the feeling this was a bit of a bombshell for the BHA who were seemingly just trying to appease everyone with many words and little action. It just about sums up their inadequacy that Struthers doesn’t think six months is long enough for them to be able to give Towcester a proper response.
"Each thinks they are right and neither thinks they have to provide qualitative and quantifiable evidence in support"
Absolutely true. Emotions are winning the game not facts.
There is some truth in this but not everyone who welcomes this intuitive does so from an emotional position.
For myself, I’ve never sat on a horse and have absolutely no intention of ever doing so, so can’t speak with an authority on the subject. But, John Francome (seven times Champion Jockey) has and can, and when he says (as he just has on the radio) that he supports the intuitive for a number of reasons including how it “would lead to fairer and more exciting racing” that’s good enough for me to welcome this.
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