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LOL, no I couldn’t stick it. I had an atrocious Cheltenham (had 2 winners and ended up roughly 80 pts down) so figured I’d get Tom to win it back for me over the flat season! Didn’t have the cahones (or the bank) for it in the end.
Part of the problem was that he might have a midweek or a Sunday tip (more often than I realised) so you would have to buy the online paper nearly every day to be sure.
I pulled the plug on 30th April. He tipped a 16/1 winner on 02-May and a 20/1 winner the following weekend!
I select my own losers now.
Aside from that he went into this race rated 90. Assuming that the stable thought Tominator to be favoured by the two mile trip, I wouldn’t imagine that there would be a pile of options for him over this sort of distance anyway. He would pretty much have been forced into events of similar class to the Northumberland Plate at the top courses.
Other tah nthe distance it’s not as if the hrose’s form wasn’t there for all to see. He’d won twice and most of the time was staying on at the end of his previous races. Add to that, he’d only been out of the first 4 once in his last seven runs in Britain. Indeed, if it hadn’t been for his beaten form in France, I suspect he’d have been a shorter price here. Tominator had form to give him a chance in the Plate but then, as I discussed with David Cormack on course, so did many of the field in what looked a very open contest.
As an aside, if I took one out of this contest it’s Petara Bay, who ran a cracker in staying on for fourth. Might be worth bearing in mind for then near future as his recent runs suggest he’s crying out for an extended trip.
Rob
A tipster in the Sporting Life tipped him, to. Ben Linfoot, I think. I remember Tom Segal as a good tipster though.
Wouldn’t It Be Nice If Pricewise Admitted He Got Lucky?
At least now and again. He had two of the most obvious stayers running for him yesterday and fronted up on Channel 4 emphasising how a strong pace was the key to the race. Personally, I didn’t read anything from anyone that disagreed with that theory. In reality we got a slowly run mess of a race with the front three filling the places despite how the race was run. So it appears a case of result correct but working totally wrong. Given the knowledge of the way the race was to be run would he have put the same horses up? I very much doubt it. As regards the original selection of Ruler Of World he was put up after a pretty ordinary maiden which subsequently hasn’t worked out. At that stage it was basically a punt on little more than a strong stable and pedigree. Of course the Racing Post can breathe a sigh of relief as they don’t mind if Tom got a pin out as long as they can write a headline grabber.
I watched the interview and from what I saw Tom seemed to be taking the line that the strength of DA’s favouritism made for some healthy EW prices on other horses. In other words they represented value at those odds given the unkown factor of the favourite. As he said, if the favourite doesn’t get the trip then the EW punter might capatalize with a win, if not the length of the prices outside of the fav made the race a viable prospect for winning place bets.
As far as I can see he might still have been spot on. DA might not have got the 12 furlong trip. As it happened his lack of faith in the favourite seemed perfectly well justified to me. I thought Tom’s outlook represented good solid advice myself.
Horses are flesh and blood and unable to communicate to their trainers/jockeys. Surely by that token there’s always a healthy dose of luck involved in backing a winner?
A few years ago during a barren spell he was noted howthe big race winner on the Saturday had been subject of a gamble on Betfair.
Should we look to the exchanges for inspiration when considering a bet ?Next weekend Paul Nicholls had the winner. Well what we should do now is focus on the biggest stables and the best jockeys – it’s so simple !
The next weekend was influenced by the draw. Now, maybe it’s better to focus on trends and statistics and look for advantages there.
There’s also his favourite trainer " No better man for these races than John Gosden ". " You can’t beat Stoute when looking at the big races " etc etc etc.
Also, quite often, his selections are the same as Delamere, Spotlight, Postdata. Quite obvious that stable information is also important.
Certainly has his moments but there’s definitely hypocrisy in his analysis / comments on racing.
I’ve no problem with being lucky if it means I win, better to be lucky than unlucky any day.
Anyone following Pricewise for the last few weeks would be skint though, he’s had loser after loser and only one winner, he says as much himself in todays column.
Tom Segal seems a bit tired to me and maybe the pricewise column could do with reinvigorating and fresh impetus.
He’s not an obsessive punter, i think that’s the problem. When I’ve seen him interviewed he’s healthily self-effacing and gave the impression he simply doesn’t care if a bet comes off or not. He also knows a lot of racing is play-acting and/or rubbish, and makes mention of this from time to time. That is all very healthy and good from a sanity point of view but no good for the pricewise column. I would be embarrassed by the run of dodos he has put up over the years.
The prices his selections are highlighted at means that long losing runs are a statistical inevitability. He consistently turns a profit and comes up with some inspired selections.
The recent book ‘The Secrets Of Pricewise’ by James Milton was an enlightening read regarding Segal’s methods, or lack of them. I’m pretty sure Tom Segal would happily admit to being by and large an ‘intuition’ selector, looking at a range of inputs but not doggedly sticking to one system or set of rules.A quote from the book – ‘Basically, the key to golden rules is not to have any. Especially since Betfair came along, the market is totally and utterly different from how it used to be. It’s not some staid thing that you can impose rules and regulations on – it’s incredibly fluid so it’s important to think fluidly too.’
It’s pretty harsh, Stilvi, to have a pop at someone (with a record of having achieved similar feats many times in the past) who’s just put up a 33/1 shot to win the Derby. I don’t think even Tom Segal would have predicted that…or then again?
The prices his selections are highlighted at means that long losing runs are a statistical inevitability. He consistently turns a profit and comes up with some inspired selections.
The recent book ‘The Secrets Of Pricewise’ by James Milton was an enlightening read regarding Segal’s methods, or lack of them. I’m pretty sure Tom Segal would happily admit to being by and large an ‘intuition’ selector, looking at a range of inputs but not doggedly sticking to one system or set of rules.A quote from the book – ‘Basically, the key to golden rules is not to have any. Especially since Betfair came along, the market is totally and utterly different from how it used to be. It’s not some staid thing that you can impose rules and regulations on – it’s incredibly fluid so it’s important to think fluidly too.’
It’s pretty harsh, Stilvi, to have a pop at someone (with a record of having achieved similar feats many times in the past) who’s just put up a 33/1 shot to win the Derby. I don’t think even Tom Segal would have predicted that…or then again?
Don’t forget on the day he also advice Galileo Rock each way at 40/1 who finished 3rd in the race.
At least now and again. He had two of the most obvious stayers running for him yesterday and fronted up on Channel 4 emphasising how a strong pace was the key to the race. Personally, I didn’t read anything from anyone that disagreed with that theory. In reality we got a slowly run mess of a race with the front three filling the places despite how the race was run. So it appears a case of result correct but working totally wrong. Given the knowledge of the way the race was to be run would he have put the same horses up? I very much doubt it. As regards the original selection of Ruler Of World he was put up after a pretty ordinary maiden which subsequently hasn’t worked out. At that stage it was basically a punt on little more than a strong stable and pedigree. Of course the Racing Post can breathe a sigh of relief as they don’t mind if Tom got a pin out as long as they can write a headline grabber.
I agree with every word there Stilvi,Tom got lucky but thats Ante-Post betting in a nutshell.Where Tom deserves all the credit in the world is the fact he took 33/1 about a 7/1 winner.I have read Toms work for years now and he really does play his methods down,there could be a couple of reasons why he does that,1 is the fact he doesn’t want to be continually asked how he comes to his conclusions so just simplifies the whole process to being rather mundane so nobody explores any deeper,however I believe Tom plays the modest unassuming character because he’s actually the opposite,I believe he is a meticulous student of not only form but patterns and in coming to the conclusion that
Ruler of the world
was a solid e/w Derby proposition he actually recognised certain tell-tale signs,1 is the fact that Aiden openly admits he trained his half brother
Duke of Marmalade
wrongly as a 3yo and that a Derby campaign would have been the better route,in 16 outings it wasn’t until the 13th run that he finally sent him over his best trip of 12f,he never made that mistake with ‘Ruler of the world’.Aiden brilliant Trainer that he is has often thrown as many Arrows as he can muster at the Derby and in 2007 he actually ran half the bloody field (7 runners) barring ‘Soldier of fortune’ the remainder were nothing special.Tom knows this! He also knows Coolmore have a reputation for naming their horses appropriately,they said last year that the name ‘Camelot’ was sitting waiting for the right horse so naming a horse
Ruler of the world
speaks volumes,Tom knows but just doesn’t elaborate,I like his style!
Do Bookmakers pay to appear in RP Pricewise column?
I would imagine they must do, there would be little point in Victor Chandler appearing in it otherwise.
I have never had an account with the guy and have no interest in having one but have noticed Tom Segal never ever recommends a horse at Victor Chandler price even if it’s clearly the best price and the price is never ever available with Chandler himself if the horse is recommended in Pricewise.
Maybe it’s cheaper to have your so called "prices" in the table than have a full blown advert in the paper but surely there’s a case for the advertising standards authority here.
People can get hold of Pricewise selections the night before so by the time anyone buys the paper the price has all but gone. I wouldn’t have thought bookies would pay for it but I don’t know.
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Noticed that with his Ebor tip today. 16/1 with VC in the matrix but price recmmended was 14/1 with Lads and PP. Clearly has editorial input/approval so I agree EC, why do they bother including VC prices?
I notice that even minutes after, the price has been dropped, when I find out Pricewise’s pick for Ginger’s competition. Yet they suppose to hold prices for a short time at least.
Pricewise is available online from 8pm the night before.
Here are the bookmaker’s policy as set down in the Racing Post Website.
Boylesports policy
With many bookmakers now running 24-hour operations, not all firms guarantee the prices that feature in Pricewise in the Racing Post. The following is the current policy of Boylesports:All advertised prices in Pricewise races are available from 8.30am on both internet and telephones. There is no set time limit to any price, however, subject to liability management, we will aim to accommodate as many customers as we reasonably can at any advertised price.
The Bookmaker Policy section contains the current policy of firms who appear in Racing Post Pricewise tables.
Bet365 policy
With many bookmakers now running 24-hour operations, not all firms guarantee the prices that feature in Pricewise in the Racing Post. The following is the current policy of Bet365:All advertised prices in Pricewise races (including ante-post) are available from 8.30am on both internet and telephones. There is no set time limit to any price.We aim to accommodate as many customers as we reasonably can at any advertised price.
The Bookmaker Policy section contains the current policy of firms who appear in Racing Post Pricewise tables
William Hill policy
With many bookmakers now running 24-hour operations, not all firms guarantee the prices that feature in Pricewise in the Racing Post. The following is the current policy of William Hill:"We open betting with our prices at 5.30 pm the day before the race (sometimes earlier for feature races). These are traded in retail until the shops close and all the way through the night online. Naturally, prices do fluctuate throughout the evening trading and in particular the pricewise selections.
Our policy on race day prices across the channels is as follows:
Retail
"We will always re-release advertised prices that are in print in the Racing Post at 9am (irrespective of shop opening time). We will endeavour to hold our prices for as long as possible*."Online/Mobile/Telebetting
" We will always re-release advertised prices that are in print in the Racing Post at 8.30am. We will endeavour to hold our prices for as long as possible*."*"Unless the race fundamentally changes overnight, e.g. non-runners or an extreme change in going."
The Bookmaker Policy section contains the current policy of firms who appear in Racing Post Pricewise tables
Ladbrokes policy
With many bookmakers now running 24-hour operations, not all firms guarantee the prices that feature in Pricewise in the Racing Post. The following is the current policy of Ladbrokes:"Betting on all Pricewise races is available from 5.30pm the previous day (often earlier) across our shops, on-line and call centre channels."
"On the morning of the Pricewise races we will offer our advertised prices to our customers for a period of 15 minutes, usually from 9.00am" (unless there are any fundamental changes to the make up of the race, such as non-runners)
"Ante-post betting is available across all channels until such time that price movement is necessary and unavoidable. However, it is often the case that an ante-post price is available for a longer period of time in our retail units.
The Bookmaker Policy section contains the current policy of firms who appear in Racing Post Pricewise tables
Paddy Power policy
With many bookmakers now running 24-hour operations, not all firms guarantee the prices that feature in Pricewise in the Racing Post. The following is the current policy of Paddy Power:Our prices will be available for a minimum of five minutes, for Saturdays from 8.30am, for Sunday-Friday from 9am.
The Bookmaker Policy section contains the current policy of firms who appear in Racing Post Pricewise tables
BetVictor policy
With many bookmakers now running 24-hour operations, not all firms guarantee the prices that feature in Pricewise in the Racing Post. The following is the current policy of BetVictor:For Group 1/Grade 1 we will always look to go back with our original prices from 8.30am UK time for as long as we can hold them depending upon the liability. Any other race is subject to a decision being made on the morning of the race.
The Bookmaker Policy section contains the current policy of firms who appear in Racing Post Pricewise tables
Coral
Our Price Promise is aimed at making advertised horseracing prices available to as many customers as possible both in our shops and across our remote channels. We will endeavour to hold our prices as long as possible.
Advertised horseracing prices are available from 8.30am in our 1,770 shops and across our remote channels, Monday to Saturday. We guarantee these prices for 15 minutes between 8.30am and 8.45am in our shops and for as long as possible on remote channels before liabilities cause a price change.
Advertised horseracing prices will be available in shops from 11.00am on Sunday. We guarantee these prices for 15 minutes from 11.00am to 11.15am. Prices on our remote channels are available from 9.30am for as long as possible dependant on liabilities.
We reserve the right to change prices before or during the guarantee period should there be any non-runners from the published list or a going change from the time of publication of the prices.
The Bookmaker Policy section contains the current policy of firms who appear in Racing Post Pricewise tables
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