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.
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Here’s mine, worked from the RPR scale, 3yo’s and older, 7f+…..
Harbinger 138
Nakayama Festa 135
Workforce 134
Cape Blanco 133
Makfi 132
Lookin At Lucky 130
Quality Road 129
Paco Boy 129
Behkabad 128
Canford Cliffs 128
Rip Van Winkle 127
Sarafina 127
Goldikova 127
Fame And Glory 127
Twice Over 126
Poet’s Voice 126
Marinous 126
Lord Chaparral 126
Dick Turpin 126
Blame 126
Rose Kingdom 125
Red Jazz 125
Quijano 125
Victoire Pisa 125
Gio Ponti 125
Night Magic 125
Irian 125
Byword 125
Dangerous Midge 125
Americain 125Nice one Cav!,
That list looks perfect in truth and nice to see you’ve got a handle on the American and Australian horses too – my question is Goldikova seems a litle bit low?
This is how I have the top rated Middle Distanc performances of 2010;
107.11 Harbinger
106.44 Workforce
105.24 Lope De Vega
104.82 Holberg
104.61 Cape Blanco
102.64 Debussy
102.62 Chinese White
102.50 Stotsfold
102.33 Dangerous Midge
102.31 Rewilding
101.04 Behkabad
100.73 Glass Harmonium
100.43 Twice Over
100.32 Red Badge
100.23 Redwood
100.18 Snow Fairy
100.15 Fame And Glory
99.93 Sri Putra
99.52 Harris TweedBeen playing around with how to get a timeform rating and have used; horses all age G1 + How far it beat the par + How far the it beat the average all age G1 on the card and have come out with;
How Far Par was beat
11L Workforce
9L Lope De Vega
8L Holberg
8L Dangerous Midge
7L Harbinger
7L Rewilding
7L Snow Fairy
6L Chinese White
5L Cape Blanco
5L Debussy
5L Stotsfold
4L Red Badge
3L Behkabad
3L Glass Harmonium
3L Harris Tweed
2L Redwood
1L Twice Over
0L Fame And Glory
-1L Sri PutraHow Far All Age G1 was beat
16.82 Holberg
16.17 Harbinger
13.97 Workforce
13.77 Lope De Vega
12.05 Debussy
11.04 Dangerous Midge
10.84 Harris Tweed
10.47 Snow Fairy
10.1 Cape Blanco
9.37 Behkabad
9.17 Chinese White
8.57 Stotsfold
7.97 Red Badge
7.60 Rewilding
7.20 Glass Harmonium
6.74 Fame And Glory
6.70 Redwood
4.43 Twice Over
3.93 Sri PutraFinal Ratings
131 Workforce (Derby)
130 Harbinger (King George)
130 Holberg (Foundation Stakes)
128 Lope De Vega (Prix Du Jockey Club)
121 Dangerous Midge (Old Newton Cup)
120 Cape Blanco (Irish Champion)
120 Debussy (Huxley Stakes)
118 Chinese White (Pretty Polly)
118 Snow Fairy (Irish Oaks)
117 Rewilding (Great Voltigeur)
116 Stotsfold (Brigadier Gerard)
113 Behkabad (Prix Niel)
113 Harris Tweed (Stand Cup)
112 Red Badge (Sventon Cup)
111 Glass Harmonium (Gordon Stakes)
109 Redwood (Gordon Stakes)
107 Fame And Glory (Corondation Cup)
106 Twice Over (Eclipse)
103 Sri Putra (Eclipse)Obviously I can see a major discrepancy in Holberg! would have liked to see him over 10 furlongs and maybe he’ll get his chance to prove his class in Meydan in the coming months but I have to agree it looks a bit dodgy especially when you see the company he’s keeping at the top but looking back at the Foundation Stakes and see Pink Symphony albeit off 8-3 coming within a head! but theres enough to be excited about in coming 6th in the Melbourne Cup, of course he could just be a course specialist.
Of course this is all based on speed and it would have been nice to see the Prince of Wales and Champion Stakes at Newmarket run at a more sound pace because we could have got a true reflection on some horses.
mmmmmmm…… with respect I think that there might be more than one major discrepancy here Mr W! Just shows how you can’t judge a horse’s merits strictly on speed.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Sixteen years on from Celtic Swing posting 138 with his Racing Post Trophy win, Frankel put up the highest rating by a juvenile since when sweeping to a ten-length success in the Royal Lodge Stakes at Ascot in September.
133p Frankel
Was Frankel’s timefigure in the Royal Lodge on a par with his rating?
Celtic Swing’s form rating was top-notch but it was bolstered further by two exceptional late-season timefigures: in the Hyperion Stakes (at Ascot) and RP Trophy
I gave Goldikova the 127 for the Queen Anne. I couldn’t go above that when you take Dream Eater into consideration. The Prix Rothschild was a weak Group 1, she couldnt concede the weight to Makfi in the Prix Haras granted in mitigation she did seem to hit the front too early that day, the proximity of Regal Parade who is surely a better sprinter anchors the Foret and a less than 2 length beating of Gio Ponti on a line through Debussy again prevents a big score at Churchill Downs.
I worked these out completely mathematically and a bit like Sea The Stars maybe she’s value for a pound or two more, but her run style of usually only hitting the front inside the final furlong and winning narrowly prevents the award of bigger ratings. But an amazing horse, a real superstar.
Timeform’s leading juveniles in 2010
Sixteen years on from Celtic Swing posting 138 with his Racing Post Trophy win, Frankel put up the highest rating by a juvenile since when sweeping to a ten-length success in the Royal Lodge Stakes at Ascot in September.133p Frankel
128 Dream Ahead
121 Hooray
119p Roderic O’Connor
119p Pathfork
119p Wootton Bassett
118 CasamentoGood old Timeform,never ones for being afraid to over hype a horse and both
Frankel
and
Celtic Swing
fall into that category! I still think
Dream Aheads
Middle Park victory was the 2yo performance of the year but what do i know!
- Total Posts 17716
Nothing
Dream Ahead won’t win a thing next season and that rating will look totally silly. He would blow wind up Wootten Bassets backside trust me.
This is how I have the top rated Middle Distanc performances of 2010;
Final Ratings
131 Workforce (Derby)
130 Harbinger (King George)
130 Holberg (Foundation Stakes)Obviously I can see a major discrepancy in Holberg! would have liked to see him over 10 furlongs
His last run in this country was over 10 furlongs at Goodwood where he beat the 105 rated
Heliodor
by 4 lengths off level weights.Holberg wouldn"t get within 10 lengths of Harbinger and Heliodor obviously a 128 horse according to your calculations would still lose to Harbinger with a furlong head start! Touch of the McCarthers and Duke of Marmalades again Mr W!
Nothing
Dream Ahead won’t win a thing next season and that rating will look totally silly. He would blow wind up Wootten Bassets backside trust me.
Trust You! I wouldn"t trust you with my last 50p!
- Total Posts 17716
Here’s mine, worked from the RPR scale, 3yo’s and older, 7f+…..
Harbinger 138
Nakayama Festa 135
Workforce 134
Cape Blanco 133
Makfi 132
Lookin At Lucky 130
Quality Road 129
Paco Boy 129
Behkabad 128
Canford Cliffs 128
Rip Van Winkle 127
Sarafina 127
Goldikova 127
Fame And Glory 127
Twice Over 126
Poet’s Voice 126
Marinous 126
Lord Chaparral 126
Dick Turpin 126
Blame 126
Rose Kingdom 125
Red Jazz 125
Quijano 125
Victoire Pisa 125
Gio Ponti 125
Night Magic 125
Irian 125
Byword 125
Dangerous Midge 125
Americain 125I’m definitely not cut out for this game. According to your figures Paco Boy is superior to Canford Cliffs and I could have swore Hughsie said he wasn’t in the same county let alone the same leugue. Blame you have inferior to to Looking at Lucky and Quality rode but he stuffed them both in the Breeders
Please educate me. None of that makes even the remotest bit of sense to me. What am I missing?
Timeform’s leading middle distance performers in 2010
Harbinger produced a flawless display at Ascot, everything coming easily to him as he cruised to the front before drawing clear to win by a record margin of 11 lengths, an effort backed up by the clock (produced a timefigure of 135). Timeform have no doubt that Harbinger was a truly outstanding racehorse in 2010. Like Sea The Stars in 2009, Harbinger stands tall above his contemporaries, rated 7lb ahead of his stablemate Workforce, who himself had an excellent year, returning his 133 figure when winning the Arc.
140 Harbinger
133 Workforce
132 Nakayama Festa
130 Cape Blanco, Fame And Glory
129 Rip Van Winkle
128 Twice Over
126 Midday, Rewilding, Sarafina, BywordFist who was it that put up
Harbinger
for this years King George at 25/1 a year before the race?
and who was it that put upWorkforce
for this years Derby at 25/1 aswell as the Arc at 42"s and 16/1?
Timeform would have top rated Harbinger for the Arc and he would have lost,Workforce should have a capital "P" next to his rating too as he will progress even further as a 4yo,but heh what do i know? TAPK thrives on being proactive,Timeform have always been reactive! Foresight makes money,hindsight should have made money! 
- Total Posts 17716
Shame your wallet doesn’t have the same faith in your bets as your mouth does!
Your barks always louder in hindsight than the thickness of your wallet in foresight!
Good old Timeform,never ones for being afraid to over hype a horse and both
Frankel
and
Celtic Swing
fall into that category! I still think
Dream Aheads
Middle Park victory was the 2yo performance of the year but what do i know!
As outstanding a performance as it undoubtedly was, it was a soft ground performance and the margin of victory flattered him enormously. Witness Approve’s next race on similarly soft ground, the perfomance of Irish Field who had finished just 3 lengths behind him previously, the proximity of dear old Foghorn Leghorn not to mention Hannon’s comments regarding Strong Suit.
If there was any over-hyping amongst the 2 year olds last season it was this performance. Frankel produced three outstanding performances suggesting there was nothing remotely flukey about him.
It is fair to opine that he will not train on but not to knock him for what he has done.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Good old Timeform,never ones for being afraid to over hype a horse and both
Frankel
and
Celtic Swing
fall into that category! I still think
Dream Aheads
Middle Park victory was the 2yo performance of the year
but what do i know!
You know that Dream Ahead beat Strong Suit and Approve by 9 lengths. Many other people know that Dream Ahead beat Foghorn Leghorn in the very same race by 10.5 lengths. I’d rather believe that Strong Suit and Approve ran well below form rather than that Forghorn Leghorn improved by 15 pounds or more in his ninth race of the season, just a week after being beaten 9 lengths in a nursery.
Drone – The following link explains how we arrived at the Frankel rating.
http://betting.betfair.com/horse-racing/timeform-features/the-timeform-view—just-how-good-is-frankel-280910.html
Only difference is the subsequent rise of the rating after Klammer’s Horris Hill win.
Cav, Mr Wilson – Thanks for sharing your ratings very interesting to see what others come up with.
Shame this thread has turned into another ‘Look at Me’ thread courtesy of your majesty.
Well anyone who rates a horse who won a King George that truned out to be one of the worst in history, even if he was visualy very impressive, on apar with Sea the Stars has got to have a screw lose
The horse got injured and can’t defend himslef but the fact is he won a King George that proved to be as ordinary a Group 1 as you could ever hope to find.
The form was never farnked in fact is was quite the poosite……..Cape Blanco had won a very poor Irish Derby over 12f but he clearly never got the trip at Ascot nor did he as was the worry get it at lonchamp. Youmzain proved he was only a shadow of his former self never striking a blow also in the Arc, his fav race.
1 poxy Group 1 against a horse who won everthing there was to win Gimme a break!!!!
Youmzain put in three consistent performances before the Arc. His Ascot run put him 3.5 lengths behind Cape Blanco over 12 furlongs. His Epsom race put him 3.5 lengths behind Fame and Glory. The neck between Youmzain and Daryakana at both Ascot and Saint Cloud showed him running to the same level of form. At that level of form, Harbinger would have beaten Fame and Glory by about 10 lengths. He deserves the high rating.
A you might guess with a name like Timeform, they would only confirm a high form rating if the time justified it. I don’t know how Timeform measure their time or calculate their figures, but the official time for the race was exceptional. Other than Harbinger’s race, the fastest of the day was in a £70,000 very competitive 21-runner handicap over 7 furlongs where the time was faster than standard by 0.007 seconds per furlong. Harbinger’s time was faster than standard by 0.285 seconds per furlong. Timeform are right in arguing that Harbinger’s performance on that day was exceptional. You are right in that Sea The Stars demonstrated he was a much “better” racehorse because he put up several exceptional performances over different courses and distances.
- Total Posts 17716
Sorry for posting in here when it’s probably not relevant, I’ll edit my post and start up a new thread for the likes of me, cav and others David.
Excellent article on Frankel, although in regards to the finishing sectionals you need to remember the top quality horses distribute their speed evenly, another thing is most people confuse speed and stamina.
This is an excellent article as well mate.
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