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SwallowCottage,
Dear, oh, dear. Do I have to explain everything?
Let’s look at the incident again, shall we?
What Henry did was instinctive. He saw the ball late, stuck out his arm, the ball hit his wrist, there was a second touch with the hand and then he crossed for Gallas.
All this happened in a split-second and his actions probably didn’t register until after the incident and euphoria of the moment.
Players concede penalties week in, week out after ‘deliberate’ handball. Are they cheats? No. Sometimes it is an instinctive reaction that is not intended to deceieve.
I used the ‘Phil Neville incident’ as an example. The link is below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAuIeioKtHk
Is Phil Neville a cheat? No. That was pure instinct and look at his reaction. As previously stated, he probably got back to the dressing room and thought ‘What did I do that for?’
Now let’s look at what could have happened after the incident.
What would Henry achieve by approaching the referee and telling him the truth? Only a complete moron would expect the referee to change his mind. Good intentions, or not, THE OFFICIALS SHOULD NOT BE INFLUENCED BY A PLAYER ON THE FIELD OF PLAY.
Robbie Fowler was awarded a fair play award after admitting David Seaman did not foul him when a penalty was awarded during his Liverpool days. He told the ref, who, rightly so, still awarded the penalty.
Henry showed a lot of class by approaching Dunne after the game. Not too many players would have done that, but he should have made a statement after the game and apologized for his actions.
Analysing slow-motion replays to highlight an officials mistake is unfair at times, but a 3D image of the Linesmans position clearly shows that he had an unobstructed view and every replay I’ve seen in normal time clearly shows Henry handling the ball.
There was no need for a video replay and the Linesman (or assistant referee, as they like to be called) should be held accountable.
I’m in favour of video replays, but I’ve seen far more dubious decisions that highlight the need for this technology.
The game SHOULD NOT be replayed. Where would FIFA draw the line if they did?
To label Henry a cheat after one such incident is pure ignorance.
Have you heard Roy Keane’s reaction to the game. No nonsense. Spot-on. Well said, Roy.
I haven’t been Roy Keane’s biggest fan but I thoroughly enjoyed this little press conference extract:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8370497.stm
Of course we should have as much technology as possible, a fourth or possibly fifth official should be in a booth somewhere watching the game and when appropriate, he should bring things to the attention of the on-field official (via a radio link, although semaphore might be more entertaining).
But currently, we don’t have that system. So the Irish have to take it on the chin and move on. Everyone knows there is absolutely no chance of the game being replayed because it would set a precedent that would make high-profile football matches impossible. There would, in theory, be no end to the replays.
Henry got away with it, France got lucky, that’s life. Triumph and disaster etc.
Henry did cheat in that moment…any intentional handball is surely an act of cheating?
The fact that he has released his statement admitting that he handballed it (but not that he cheated, perversely) shows he is ashamed. He is a fair player and seems like a decent guy who tries to do thr right thing.
On this occasion, he did the wrong thing because the stakes were so high and he was desperate to help his team get through.
That can happen to anyone, great or otherwise.
His response shows why he is a far classier person than Maradonna (but not as good looking as Madonna) IMHO.
It won’t be replayed – how can FIFA set that precedent?
Surely, if there were a rematch, then every time something contentious happens on the pitch there could be claims for a replay?
I like the fact that football does not have a
third umpire.
Penalties are so subjective – how many of us have watched one live, then the replay, and then changed our minds about the decision?
The only cast iron opportunity for a referral to a TV referee would be the ball over the line scenario. (offside would be way too often)
As for Roy Keane, he does sound like a bitter old queen. In that interview shown on Sky Sports he does not address the handball issue, just how the Irish team could not take the next step and how FAI chief executive John Delaney is lousy at his job…oh and how badly he was treated at the World Cup in 2002. (TBF, the interviewer asking the questions was hardly Paxman)
Zip
There isn’t a professional footballer, living or dead, that can claim to have never cheated during a game of football. If something as innocuous as a ‘foul’ can be construed as cheating, (player seeking an unfair advantage) then what Henry did was no different – it was just better executed to achieve maximum effect in a
game
of football.
The huge magnitude and profile of the occasion should provoke no more out-cry than the dodgy penalty Ireland got at home against Georgia earlier in their campaign.
I wouldn’t have gave a damn if Ireland qualified in this fashion, and neither would they.
The most scandelous thing about this whole affair is Ireland asking for a replay. I believe it’s far more ‘dishonest’ of them than the Henry hand-ball will ever be and, whats more,
they
know it.
Football is a pantomime. Thieves crying foul!
There shouldn’t be a replay; as has been said, Ireland have to take it on the chin. The Ref’s decision is final. What they SHOULD be whingeing about is EUFA & FIFA’s wooden-headed decision NOT to introduce video technology and a 4th ref to adjudicate using the video footage over disputed game-changing moments.
Platini and the football authorities remind me of the days when certain old racing bods opposed the introduction of things like starting-stalls.
Let’s get a new generation of top football administrators who won’t sh*t their pants at the thought of actually using new technology. It can be used in a positive and clearly benficial way to make the game fairer; eaier to referee and harder to cheat. Not a revolutionary concept surely?Basically what your saying pompete is that human kind is flawed? People cant stop themselves from handling the ball – its in-built in to our psyche?
No Doug, I’m not suggesting ‘human kind is flawed’ and as far as I ever thought about the subject like you it is not a concept I understand to be fundermentally true.
As I mentioned what happened isn’t right and isn’t fair but when has football ever been about that? How many games have you played in and won that you really had no business in doing so? How many games have you played in and lost and really had no business in doing so?
What Henry did is part of the game and the same or similar will happen – a dozen, two dozen, three dozen times up and down the country this very day…
Pompete…would you have cheated to get your team into the world cup?
I don’t know, if your asking me would I pay (or be part of a team that did) the opposition for them to lose the game then absolutely not. However, would I take a throw-in or free kick from the wrong position to gain an advantage – then yes I probably would. Would I pull someones shirt to stop them out jumping me and potentially scoring then yes I probably would. Would I control the ball with my hand then yes I probably would.
Pompete…would you have cheated to get your team into the world cup?
I don’t know, if your asking me would I pay (or be part of a team that did) the opposition for them to lose the game then absolutely not. However, would I take a throw-in or free kick from the wrong position to gain an advantage – then yes I probably would. Would I pull someones shirt to stop them out jumping me and potentially scoring then yes I probably would. Would I control the ball with my hand then yes I probably would.
Applaude your honesty here. I have thought about this and perhaps you are correct. Given what was at stake there is every chance I may have cheated too.
However, I would like to think I wouldn’t have handled the ball. Its different, but I have called fouls on myself in tournament snooker and pool. Its not a 100mile an hour sport though lol!
What Henry did was instinctive. He saw the ball late, stuck out his arm, the ball hit his wrist, there was a second touch with the hand and then he crossed for Gallas.
All this happened in a split-second and his actions probably didn’t register until after the incident and euphoria of the moment.
Players concede penalties week in, week out after ‘deliberate’ handball. Are they cheats? No. Sometimes it is an instinctive reaction that is not intended to deceieve.
What would Henry achieve by approaching the referee and telling him the truth? Only a complete moron would expect the referee to change his mind. Good intentions, or not, THE OFFICIALS SHOULD NOT BE INFLUENCED BY A PLAYER ON THE FIELD OF PLAY.
/quote]
Bosranic – you have not got a clue. Henry deliberately handled the ball and to say that it was instinctive is utter rubbish. He has issued a statement saying he handballed it. He cheated on this occasion ( I am not saying he is a cheat usually ) and if you are so thick that you cannot understand this then that’s your problem and not mine.
Soccer players ( and a lot of the game’s supporters ) have a reputation for being stupid as shown by Neville with his reaction to trying to stop the ball going in the goal ( which is a totally different scenario to the one that Henry experienced ).
It is easier to cheat at soccer than many other sports – how can you cheat at tennis, golf, cricket etc – it is difficult and may explain why the general public respect the professionals in these sports more than they respect football players.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the notion that a referee should be able to change his mind in certain circumstances when a soccer player approaches him to explain an unjust decision……snooker players and golfers immediately tell the officials when they have broken the rules even when they have not done it deliberately and they are praised for doing so. Soccer can learn from the sporting attitude shown in other sports – we just need to change the mindset that presently exists in soccer which makes it ridiculed by a lot of the public.
There is this attitude amongst some people in soccer ( as shown on this thread and by the statements from some players ) that it is acceptable to cheat as long as the referee does not notice it and I wish we could get rid of this. Video technology ( including post match punishment for diving ) is needed if we are going to stop the cheating from becoming worse.
Bosranic – you have not got a clue. Henry deliberately handled the ball and to say that it was instinctive is utter rubbish. He has issued a statement saying he handballed it. He cheated on this occasion ( I am not saying he is a cheat usually ) and if you are so thick that you cannot understand this then that’s your problem and not mine.
John Carew, a fellow professional, also labelled it ‘instinctive’.I suppose they haven’t got a clue, either.
Soccer players ( and a lot of the game’s supporters ) have a reputation for being stupid as shown by Neville with his reaction to trying to stop the ball going in the goal ( which is a totally different scenario to the one that Henry experienced ).
It is easier to cheat at soccer than many other sports – how can you cheat at tennis, golf, cricket etc – it is difficult and may explain why the general public respect the professionals in these sports more than they respect football players.
As for Tennis? You can not be serious!! Seldom, in fact never, have I seen a tennis player overrule a line judge in favour of their opponent. I’m pretty sure, more often than not, tennis players keep a potentially poor decision to themselves at the detriment of their opponent.In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the notion that a referee should be able to change his mind in certain circumstances when a soccer player approaches him to explain an unjust decision……snooker players and golfers immediately tell the officials when they have broken the rules even when they have not done it deliberately and they are praised for doing so. Soccer can learn from the sporting attitude shown in other sports – we just need to change the mindset that presently exists in soccer which makes it ridiculed by a lot of the public.
There is this attitude amongst some people in soccer ( as shown on this thread and by the statements from some players ) that it is acceptable to cheat as long as the referee does not notice it and I wish we could get rid of this. Video technology ( including post match punishment for diving ) is needed if we are going to stop the cheating from becoming worse.Response in RED
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SwallowCottage wrote: "Players concede penalties week in, week out after ‘deliberate’ handball. Are they cheats? No. Sometimes it is an instinctive reaction that is not intended to deceive."
Sometimes it may be instinctive…but not this time!
Surely most (non-stupid) people who watch the replay can see that Henry deliberately manipulates the ball not once, but twice?
Although Henry is till claiming the ol’ "instinctive" standpoint…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal … 370764.stm
I think we know the truth
Zip
Surely most (non-stupid) people who watch the replay can see that Henry deliberately manipulates the ball not once, but twice?
Although Henry is till claiming the ol’ "instinctive" standpoint…
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal … 370764.stm
I think we know the truth
Zip
Zippy,
You make it sound like this kind of ‘excuse’ is peddled week in, week out.
Q: Why did you lunge at that player with a two-footed challenge?
A: I don’t know. Instinct I guess.Q: Why did you raise your hands to a fellow professional and strike him?
A: Why? Instinct, of course.Many professionals within the sport have come out in defence of Thierry Henry. I have yet to hear too many negative remarks about the man and many have called his actions ‘instinctive’.
Some of the most respected men in football have had this to say:
“At the end of the day, we turn the anger against a player who’s one of the fairest I’ve managed. It was an instinctive reaction. In the same game, Robbie Keane touched the ball with his hand and the referee saw it. I want justice in sport."
~ ARSENE WENGER
"I honestly didn’t think Thierry meant it. I know him as a player and a person. He’s a good person and a great player. It’s a shame to see Ireland go out because they have such great fans but these things happen in football. I really don’t think he meant it. I’ve had a few headlines in the past which have not been nice but I don’t think he is a cheat."
~ DAVID BECKHAM
Its different, but I have called fouls on myself in tournament snooker and pool. Its not a 100mile an hour sport though lol!
Doug, I think you raise an interesting point here as I too wouldn’t dream of gamesmanship (cheating) in any other sport or game. Indeed I can honestly go as far as to say in any other area of life. A desire to gain an unfair advantage is not something that I consider to be part of my make up, so to speak.
So, I’ve thought about what it is that maybe unique to football when it comes to gamesmanship and I keep coming back to it just being part of the game.
Clearly, what Henry did this week is at one extreme of gamesmanship but in essence is really no different to knocking the ball out of play and claiming a throw-in or goal kick. And this is why I don’t view as out & out cheating but rather something else which I can’t really explain.
I’m gonna have to think about it a bit more…
http://www.yahoofreak.com/animated%20emoticons/Smile%20Animated%20Emoticons/hammer.gif
The flip side pompete is that we are thinking about it too much. Still think what Henry did was wrong, and something I’d hope I wouldn’t do if I was in his position. However, I have never been in Henry’s position. And thats the point. None of us on here are ever going to be in that position so whether we think he cheated or it is just part of the game is irrelevant. Only Henry will know if its intentional or not. His conscience will maybe mean in 5/10/20 years when an autobiography appears he will tell the truth…if he hasn’t already. Time for me to put the Henry incident to bed…zzz
From an article in The Times today about that other dinosaur Sepp Blatter. Here’s what the writer says about our forward-looking football supremo:-
He is a long-time opponent of following sports such as rugby union and cricket in using video technology in football,
How many years before Blatter and Platini are ushered along to Jurassic Park?
Just to clarify things here. Neither Sepp Blatter or Platini have the authority to introduce video technology into football; either individually or together. Rather, all changes to the Laws of Football can only be brought about following a two-thirds majority vote of the International Football Association Board (IFAB).
The IFAB consists of:
The FA (one vote)
The Scottish FA (one vote)
The Welsh FA (one vote)
The Irish FA (one vote)
FIFA (four votes)
)
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