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Thursday Clappers

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Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 71 total)
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  • #1488394
    paulostermeyerpaulostermeyer
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    • Total Posts 4585

    It’s not the doctors and nurses who have made the decision to withold treatments – it’s an NHS policy decision.

    Some of these dancing videos have sent out strong messages about the importance of staying indoors.

    It’s clear from your comment you have never worked in a front line role in the NHS and you’re fortunate enouth not to have experienced the stresses – these “narcissistic” dances are a way of unwinding and letting off steam …. if you get offended by these videos I hope you never come across some of the “closed” Facebook groups in the medical world. As for the black humore – well I won’t even start with that one.

    Until you have held the hand of a dying stranger because they have no family with them ……

    Until you have had a patient die despite you doing everything humanly possible (and beyond) to save them …..

    Until you have driven an ambulance through rush hour traffic responding to a paediateric cardiac arrest ….

    ….. you cannot begin to understand the pressures front line health workers work under.

    You do, thankfully, have the choice as to whether you clap or not and long may that be the case.

    Please don’t, however, accuse those using some light relief to release the stress levels of being “disturbing and narcissistic” …. it’s grossly unfair on them.

    the alternative is they have a breakdown and are no use to anyone, even worse they end up taking their own lives.

    PS – this is not a personal dig at you – it’s just something that grates having worked front line myself and having dealt with all three of the incidents described above, plus many others. In fairness before I experienced front line work myself I would possibly have made the same observation as you.

    Most front line workers are anything but narcissistic …… yes there are some but they’re usually outed by their coleagues.

    #1488404
    DroneDrone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5085

    What is the appetite of the general public to tax extra tax to support the increases?

    A survey carried out a few years ago indicated a healthy majority of the public would support a hypothecated ‘NH Tax’ on top of income tax as long as it was strictly ring-fenced for the NHS

    The trouble with say an extra 2% taken from income as an NH Tax is that the amount received by the government would fluctuate annually, in line with all other tax receipts so forward planning of expenditure would be tricky. However this could be fixed by the government stating a minimum that the NHS would receive annually, with any shortfall of the minimum made up by drawing on general tax and NI revenue

    I’ve no idea if 2% of income would be sufficient to fund the behemoth, just used as an example

    #1488407
    Captain Robbo
    Participant
    • Total Posts 42

    I find society in general to be narcisstic and obsessed with getting likes on Facebook. I dislike this attention seeking attitude that so many are obsessed with today. That applies to all social media users who act up for likes. Irrelevant if nurses, doctors, taxi drivers or any other profession.

    If you want a dance then have a dance, if that helps you deal with stress or makes you feel good fantastic. I just don’t see the need to do it on camera and put it on social media regardless of who you are and what you do. That’s my opinion.

    #1488416
    Cork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 320

    When people say they are happy to pay more tax what they really mean is they are happy for other people to pay more tax.

    When has any party ever won a General Election promising to increase taxes?

    #1488417
    Nathan HughesNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 21693

    I think they should mix it up a bit
    maybe next week all those who voted Tory could stand outside and shout “SORRY” for a half minute

    Member since March 2008
    #1488421
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26565

    When the clapping was first mentioned/introduced I thought what a great idea to show the NHS workers how we feel about them. However, although I didn’t mind the internet videos; it was the media coverage that totally ruined the moment for me. As if they were instructing people to do it. As if they were saying “what’s wrong with you horrible people? Get out there”! If I were an NHS worker instead of hearing the massive thankyou, I’d be thinking how many actually wanted to clap?

    Personal BIG thankyou to all the volanteers and key workers, including my girlfriend Shirley – a posty – who I saw yesterday for the first time since this thing started. :heart:

    value is everything
    #1488423
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26565

    A shout out to Nathan, Golden Miller, Homersimpson and co:

    I forgive you for not voting Tory. ;-)

    value is everything
    #1488425
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26565

    Question to Paul and anyone else:
    With all the millions donated to NHS charities, couldn’t it continue after this virus has finished?
    Not taxes increased as such, but people individually ticking a box to pay an extra amount for NHS/Social Care. Those who want to pay more can pay more. With – up to a certain level in order to guarantee a level of care – the government guaranteeing £X so the NHS/Social Care would know it’ll be at least a particular figure and can therefore plan ahead. Could that work? :unsure:

    tbh I do think the virus could be an opportunity for the government to take the NHS/Social Care out of politics… With yes a review of what needs to be done agreed to by all parties. Maybe Labour wouldn’t want to – for them it is most often a vote winner – but might feel they have no option now. The people will insist. :unsure:

    value is everything
    #1488427
    tbracingtbracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1396

    An interesting thought, Mark. The NHS is chronically under funded. My best friend is a lead accountant at an NHS trust and he has been giving the directive of budget cuts every year for last few years, asking him cut 5 million or so off the budget. He got point last year he just didn’t know where else they could save the money.

    My experience of the NHS is largely mental health. Again, an under funded sector. I was under psychiatry for four years but my appointments would be 3 months apart. The last time I was sectioned I was having a bad episode and my psychiatry couldn’t fit me in for a month. 10 hours later I was in the unit.

    I’m sure it is the same for other aspects, people waiting on operations etc.

    The problem is, those that can pay more are less likely to as many would use private healthcare. I could have seen a psychiatrist weekly if I could have afforded to go private, but it was not an option at the time.

    Not to get too political, but under this government there have been a lot of cuts to the NHS. I’ve never voted Labour, but one thing they did well was invest in the NHS.

    #1488447
    Tank
    Participant
    • Total Posts 202

    I did think that this could have blown up in my face, but glad to see the posts and opinions of the non clappers. Some good posts on here, and made by people who can articulate their reasoning better than I ever could.

    #1488464
    DroneDrone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5085

    According to Paul’s figures above “direct patient contributions” already account for 2% of expenditure, which given the NHS budget is around £130 Billion approximates to a whacking £2.5 Billion, though whether this amount includes involuntary payments such as prescription charges, I don’t know

    Unfortunately, as the above stratospheric sums indicate, the millions donated to NHS charities during this pandemic such as Tom Moore’s £30 Million, admirable though they are, really amount to little more than raindrops falling on a badly leaking pond

    No figures, but I suspect that many millions are currently donated annually to the NHS in wills, from grateful patients or the families of patients

    The problem with a voluntary donation scheme mandated by statute, nice though it sounds, is that it runs the risk of division, with those who do donate feeling they should get preferential treatment and/or annoyance that those who don’t donate are due equal treatment: equality of treatment regardless of circumstance is a founding premise of the NHS

    The idea of a supplementary ‘NHS Tax’ I mentioned above would be involuntary so all those who earn taxable income would contribute with, as per general income taxes, those who earn more paying more

    But before any more raindrops eddy the pond or deluges are hosepiped into it, it must first be drained, made water tight and have undesirable pondlife removed

    #1488469
    GoldenMiller34GoldenMiller34
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1159

    We are poles apart, Paul, on most of the important issues including Brexit!

    Are the people coming out to applaud after 8 weeks, whilst ostensibly doing so for NHS/key workers, actually motivated more by keeping up appearances in front of the neighbours? Does doing so even contain an element of narcissism? And does it not convey at least tacit support for the government?

    It beggars belief that, with all due respect, you trusted your vote to a party you knew had a highly flawed leader, a buffoon in fact, even if out of fear of what Labour would do.

    By the way, I’m not a fan of any political party (being way to the left of any) but Corbyn’s Labour offered a socialist vision that was the best I was going to get under our system.

    #1488470
    paulostermeyerpaulostermeyer
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4585

    As I said in an earlier post, under our system we do not vote for a leader – leaders are expendable and if Boris steps too much out of line he’ll be disposed of …… fortunately the Conservative party has a record of dispatching bad leaders, May only survived as long as she did because of Brexit.

    Even taking away ideology Corbyn, by no stretch of the imagination, was qualified to be Prime Minister – it woul dnever have happened.

    Socialism is one of those ideologies that is great in principle but wholly unworkable in reality, it festers and encourages corruption ….. give me one example where it has worked in reality?

    As George Orwell said “all pigs are born equal but some are more equal than others.”

    Like virtually every animal species, homo-sapiens is a hierarchical species, which builds in inherent inequalities and you can’t change nature.

    #1488471
    paulostermeyerpaulostermeyer
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4585

    Ginge,

    It’s important not to confuse general NHS funding with the money raised for NHS Charities …. they are not exactly the same.

    Most, if not all, NHS trusts have a charity attached.

    Now some of the money does go towards improving mainstream services for the patients- for example in Milton Keynes the trust charity made a major contribution towards the new cancer centre but it was more geared to allowing the design to have en-suite rooms for the more seriously ill, so making life for patients better.

    You will have seen in the news that many ICU’s and Covid-19 wards have iPads and tablets for patients to communicate with families, those would have been paid for by the charites.

    So the role of the charities is to make life more comfortable for the patients.

    Another MK example is providing the toys in the Paediatric A&E and wards.

    Even the ambulance services have charities. I worked for South Central and the charity funds Community First Responders – including their equipment and training, community defibrillators, community first aid training. A small amount also helps staff, like providing microwaves in ambulance stations – although that’s now probably by-the-by since they stopped returning crews to base for meal breaks.

    I also think the charities may also make similar contributions for staff in hospitals.

    As an example, this is what the MK Charity does (only chosen because it’s my local one – other charities are available)…..

    https://www.mkhcharity.org.uk/

    Some will say the NHS shouldn’t have to rely on charity and in an ideal world they shouldn’t – but we don’t live in an ideal world.

    #1488477
    GoldenMiller34GoldenMiller34
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1159

    Modern day forms of socialism: Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Ireland, Norway, New Zealand, Belgium…

    Historical: Paris 1872 (first revolution), Hungarian commune, Germany 1919. Some even say Maoist China.

    Capitalism merely encourages the worst of human nature: greed, envy, narcissism, discrimination, untrustworthiness…

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