May 15, 2020 at 01:00 #1488290TankParticipant
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Virtue Signallers? What good do they think they’re doing with this every week?
I’m sure that my stock has plummeted with my fellow villagers since I’ve refused to be a performing seal. Maybe I should have joined in to show community spirit, but I thought it was all about showing respect for NHS and key workers? – not sure that bashing pots and pans about does that. I have supported them in my own (quiet) way. I did hint in my local Facebook group that cash spoke louder than claps and I’m now getting some filthy looks, such is life. But I would be interested in what people think on this. All views welcomeMay 15, 2020 at 10:38 #1488302DroneParticipant
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Despite being uncomfortable aligning myself with ‘the crowd’ generally I did do the performing seal act on the first Thursday mainly because one of my near neighbours is an NHS nurse who was (and still is) working horrendously long hours. However it’s gone on far too long and seems to have become a ‘I’m clappier than thou’ unpleasantly noisy jamboree
I just make a point of whenever I encounter a ‘key worker’ be that NHS staff, checkout girl, postman, dustman…the list goes on and on…of passing the time of day and thanking them for their work with a smile. Much as I’ve always done
Respect: that’s all really, simpleMay 15, 2020 at 12:21 #1488306GoldenMiller34Participant
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Initially, perhaps, the applause was more a letting off of steam during lockdown – it’s not as if the vast majority of key workers could actually hear it (unless it was filmed).
As it’s gone on it has become (endorsed by pots and pans and fireworks (any excuse)) more a ritual and I have a deep suspicion that people taking part are doing so because not to may cost them some kind of social status with their neighbours, it’s largely become all about keeping up appearances.
Throughout, I have taken a similar approach to Drone. And I have never been out to clap because, living in a conservative village, I do not want to associate myself with folk who not many months ago returned to government a party that had seriously underfunded the NHS for years whilst effectively reducing the wages of most of its employees. Such people, who are clappers, are also hypocrites.May 15, 2020 at 12:50 #1488309homersimpsonParticipant
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Exactly what I said in a thread the other week GM. Boris and his cronies who effectively voted against a pay rise for these workers three years ago and then the hypocrites who voted them back less than six months ago. I have continued to clap along hanging out of the bedroom window. There was perhaps 15-20 doing this around where I live in the first week. Last night there were just two of us so this is probably diminishing. I do not bash pots and pans or set off fireworks though.May 15, 2020 at 16:03 #1488325
Some interesting party-political points being made.
I was under the impression the applause was for key workers not for the Government or Government policy – so comments about hypocrisy are simply disingenuous.
I voted Conservative and am proud of it, even though I have reservations about Johnsons suitability as leader but in teh UK we don’t have a Presidential system so I vote for a local MP not a PM, and I also support NHS workers, I even sometimes work for the NHS myself, so I know the horrendous conditions they work under.
The truth is no government, whatever it’s blue, red or blue and orange stripes, has funded the NHS properly …… mainly because it is impossible to fund properly. From its inception it’s been teetering on the verge of bankruptcy.
The NHS is the elephant in the room when it comes to politics, it is also a “national treasure” and in the UK attacking a national treasure be it the NHS, David Atenborough, Judy dench, afternoon tea is tantermount to being a capital offence.
The reality is, despite its amazing staff who mostly (I’ll make an exception for some of the so called managers) do amazing work in the most appalling circumstances, the NHS is no longer fit for purpose.
It was a brilliant concept at its inception and early years, but medicine has change exponentially in the last 70 odd years, the NHS has failed to keep pace with these advances and is not sustainable in its current form – it’s a money pit.
What is required is a Royal Commission to review provision of health care in this country – the trouble is no politician has the balls to run with it.
A purely state-run health service is not viable because the public will not stomach the level of taxation required to make it properly sustainable.
What is the answer – I don’t know – certainly not the American model? The Australian model looks good and seems to work, maybe an adaptation of that.
One good thing to come out of the current pandemic is it’s bought to the fore (and certainly into the public domain) some of the issues NHS staff face on a day to day basis, even when there is no pandemic.
Take PPE – it has long been an issue, long before Covid-19 was a twinkle is some bats eye …… last year I ended up as a hospital patient myself due to a lack of proper PPE whilst working on an NHS contract.May 15, 2020 at 16:43 #1488329TriptychParticipant
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Move over Matt Hancock I vote paulostermeyer for Health Secretary.
Excellent post Paul Totally agree and to think all that PPE was sitting stockpiled in a warehouse in Merseyside ready to be deployed when the Government were bleating about lack of protective equipment for NHS staff..eventually having to bring the Army in to distribute it because of lack of staff and the amount of time taken to actually find the items needed as they had been left scattered over the warehouse in some cases blocking exit aisles for the forklifts needing to load the stock onto the lorries for distribution….shambles.Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...May 15, 2020 at 17:39 #1488331Red Rum 77Participant
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The thing with PPE which I didn’t know until watching a Panorama program the other week was each item counts as 1 item. So a pair of gloves is 2 items if you get my meaning. Testing should be wider in my opinion.
As for the NHS I thought that both parties Conservative and Labour was to blame.
Must admit though not to clap for key workers every Thursday evening, although technically I’m a key worker myself. Think fund raising helps them more, like Captain Tom Moore done.May 15, 2020 at 18:09 #1488332DroneParticipant
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There’s been years of mutterings about royal commissions, cross-party talks blah blah to thrash out the future of healthcare in this country, but as Paul says no one has had the balls to actually do it, fearing the wrath that follows the jabbing of a sacred cow or perhaps more fairly a not wholly unreasonable ‘where the hell do we start?’
I suspect, or rather have been told my several who actually work within the NHS, that it’s terribly inefficient, haemorrhages money where it needn’t and is top-heavy with bureaucrats: too many overpaid chiefs, not enough underpaid indians
One glaring point is the bizarre fact that health care falls under the remit of the NHS and social care under the remit of local authorities. Bringing these together as a central government-funded National Health and Care Service is long overdue, which would free-up councils to spend their council tax receipts on the municipal tasks they should be there forMay 15, 2020 at 18:27 #1488334
Rearrange the following Drone “head, hit, nail, on, the, the”
Dare I say typical of “nationalised” industries, bureaucracy reigns and because, even at executive levels pay is poor compared with anywhere in the private sector, so the senior managers aren’t always the best, although there are exceptions.
In the ambulance service the joke is the “dangerous” paramedics are made managers to keep them away from the general public – certainly most managers have no understanding of man management – OK an extreme generalisation but, sadly, there is a grain of truth.
Also, ironically, for what is supposed to be a caring profession care for staff is virtually non-existent.
A damning report this week ripped apart management in the East of England Ambulance Trust after three members of staff committed suicide in a week.
Obviously there are some very good, caring managers but even they get stiffled by the system.May 15, 2020 at 18:49 #1488335pilgarlicParticipant
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I indulged reluctantly for a few weeks but now use the opportunity to go shopping with minimal queueing. I abhor the intrusion of fireworks and would like them banned.I did enjoy the thought of VD night preceding VE Day last week though.
I don’t recall 1997-2010 being thought of as a Golden Age for the NHS.May 15, 2020 at 22:02 #1488350tbracingParticipant
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I had no idea the clap was happening in the first week. I went out for a walk with my dog about 10 seconds before 8 o’clock. Now understand, my dog is very special, an exceptional intelligent collie x kelpie, but he is a rescue I kept on from foster at the dog rescue I volunteer at. He has some issues around people he does not know and he thinks he is a tough guy and confronts people with fear aggression. I usually leave house with him off lead as is safe to do so, little did I know about the clap. I walked out and all my neighbors were out, so my dog, Bob, promptly sought out the nearest neighbor and chased them down their own drive allied to the fact now everyone is clapping and I’m trying to restrain my dog. I had no idea what was going on, I was in a right pickle!May 16, 2020 at 07:46 #1488358Cork All StarParticipant
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I do not take part. I put on headphones and listen to music so I do not even have to hear it.
I have used the NHS more in the last five years than in the rest of my life. I have (almost) always been treated with respect and professionalism and received exemplary care and treatment.
However, the NHS could be much better. I agree with Paul. It is good to see a response to the usual left wing “throw more money at it” approach.
It annoys me to hear this tired cliche that the NHS is the envy of the world. It is not. If it was, why has nowhere else copied it? Yet in the next breath the same people are telling us it is 24 hours from disaster! It cannot be both.
In reality it is neither. If we want a truly world class service we need to have a proper, honest public debate about it with some serious thinking. That means anyone who expresses criticism should be listened to instead of abused. Unfortunately there is no sign of this happening. The NHS has become a secular deity and now we are expected to applaud it every Thursday night. Count me out.May 16, 2020 at 10:51 #1488362GoldenMiller34Participant
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You make some interesting points, Paul, but all the proud Tory voters from last December were electing a party whose MP’s, for example, clapped, cheered, laughed and waved their order papers when defeating Labour’s attempt to force the government to lift the pay cap on public sector workers in 2017. So you can’t say you didn’t know what you were voting for five months ago. To have done so and then come out to applaud key workers can only be regarded as hypocritical unless you are politically naive.May 16, 2020 at 13:41 #1488371Captain RobboParticipant
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I do not clap when told to on a Thursday and never will. I refuse to clap my enslavement.
I find the thousands of videos of nurses dancing in the hospitals disturbing and narcissistic when there are so many people not getting their correct cancer treatment etc due to this virus and many other treatments.
I respect the nurses and doctors and they do a very important job but I find so many things wrong with what is currently happening.
My elderly mother cannot see her 2yo grandson and can’t visit my sisters house. If however she was employed as a cleaner at my sisters house she would be able to visit every day. It’s all wrong.
Fear weakens the immune system yet since day 1 it has been 24 hours fear everyday.
Why are the news or gmtv etc taking out just 1 minute per day to give advice on healthy eating to boost the immune system. Instead of helping people understand about the immune system and how to boost it they sell us fear. It’s disgusting.
The people who are begging for us to be locked down for longer and stricter make me sick.
The economic collapse of this will create far more deaths, poverty, suicide and damage than any virus ever could.May 16, 2020 at 15:06 #1488390
GM I can see the point you are making but still do not believe it applies in this case.
Firstly, as I suggested in my original post, the applause is for the NHS workers not the Government or its policy.
Secondly, only the most dangerously fanatical party supporter would wholeheartedly agree with everything their party of choice does. Do you support everything your chosen party does?
I would never vote Labour because I despise virtually everything it stands for, it still doesn’t mean they are wrong 100% of the time though (just 90% – I’m feeling generous lol).
There have also been times when I have abstained in General Elections – despite being a natural leaning, even, dare I say, a Thatcherite Conservative – I haven’t liked the direction the party was going, Cameron and May wouldn’t recognise a political principle if it hit them in the face.
I don’t like or trust Johnson – he reminds me of Churchill, a highly flawed individual, only cares about himself, an average politician at best but a good orator – although the Covid-19 attack seems to have even taken the edge of Johnsons oratory.
I voted as I did because the manifesto was good and, most importantly, was getting us out of the God forsaken EU, plus the prospect of Corbyn and McDonald running the economy was too frightening.
Having said that, some of the financial decisions made by this Government must have Corbyn and McDonald creaming their jeans in delight.
Having said that I wouldn’t envy any Government, whatever their hue, having to deal with this crisis – they are in a no win situation, damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
All I can say is politicians must have massive egos, I wouldn’t want to do their job.
Going back to the NHS – yes most of the staff are underpaid, especially bearing in mind the responsibility they have, however they have always been underpaid.
It’s also very easy for opposition parties to make gestures when in opposition – it makes them look good without having the responsibility. How many above inflation pay rises did the NHS have last time Labour were in power?
Where will the money come from – 85% currently comes from general taxation, 12-13% from NI contributions and 2% from direct patient contributions.
What is the appetite of the general public to tax extra tax to support the increases?
I’m not saying the situation is right – just making the point the answer is not simplistic.
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