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recent us / uk history with Iran:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy3KDYE5KQE
what exactly is Iran doing wrong on nuclear?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YGiuF97fRE
is this the US long game, ending with China?:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/Rebui … fenses.pdf
paul,
i see you have simply gone "yah-boo" to each of:
– the Israel military ex-chief,
– the Israeli TV station that interviewed him, and
– the Israeli news website that reported the interview,rather than address any of the points they raised.
you have said is that there is a fair amount of in-fighting and politicking in the upper echelons of the IDF. how would that affect the technical capabilities of their planes and bombs ?
you have said is that there is a fair amount of in-fighting and politicking in the upper echelons of the IDF. how would that affect the technical capabilities of their planes and bombs ?
The current Jericho missiles do have the ability to deliver a payload to anywhere in Iran, which will avoid the need to risk flying jets over "enemy" territory.
There are unconfirmed, but credible, reports (which will obviously not be publicly acknowledged by either the IDF or Government)that the next generation Jericho missiles are ready for action which will have the capability to deliver larger payloads.
The constraints are more political than practical. The biggest issue being overflying. The “simplest” route would be the same used to hit the Osirak reactor in 1981, i.e. over Saudi and Iraq but obviously to fly over the latter now would require US, at the very least, turning a blind eye.
An alternative would be the northern route overflying Turkey, although that would have its own problems.
However international reaction would be the least of Israel’s worries.
what exactly is Iran doing wrong on nuclear?:
Oh no…not this nutter
The Ron Paul who said that the goverments rescue efforts after Katrina (such as they were) were "Unconstituional" and shouldnt have happened
There is no doubt at all that Iran is enriching for bomb purposes. why are they testing the requisite missiles then?
And why should such an oil/gas rich country need to so quickly develop nuclear power anyway?
Oh my god is he serious about that "protocol"?
Does he think that Iran is sweden or somewhere? This is a country that arms terrorists around the globe and talks of wiping countries off the face of the earth …and NutRonPaul thinks we should trust every word they say and that they are misunderstood nice chaps really.
Unfckingbelievable….
This is a country that arms terrorists around the globe….
It almost certainly arms Hezbollah, and it almost certainly helped arm the Iraqi insurgency…….but beyond that, I’d be looking for some proof, if we’re going to use terms like "around the globe".
Not that I think arming Hezbollah or the Iraqi insurgency are welcome, but it does tend to point towards a very limited reach. Iran only wants Middle-Eastern influence – it has no global ambition. Even the suggested acquisiton of a nuclear capability, has a strictly local application. In my view, at least
if there’s to be a nuclear-free Middle East, then surely removing Israel’s existing and totally un-monitored weapons should be the first priority?
when is Israel going to sign up to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and let in the IAEA?
why should Israel have a nuclear monopoly in the Middle East ?
why is all the focus instead on scratching around to find procedural fault with a state that (a) hasn’t got weapons and (b) is signed-up to the IAEA and (c) is being careful to follow the procedures to which its signed-up ?
And what if Israel does attack Iran, and manages to level all nuclear capacity for a few years.
Is Iran going to say "well, you got us, guess its time to give up on our weapons"?
Or will it just create further ill-feeling in the region toward Israel ?
Maybe when conventional weapons were the only game, Israelis should have thought "Its going to get worse, lets deal with the Palestinians properly before it gets past conventional weapons".
Eternal victimhood and eternal ghetto-mentality will mean eternal insecurity for Israel.
The Palestinians didn’t cause the Holocaust.
The peaceful way out surely is for a strong and secure Palestinian state within "the land of Israel".
Create that and won’t the "nutters" on both sides be marginalised ?
why should Israel have a nuclear monopoly in the Middle East ?
Because it is the one country under permanent threat from its neighbours and has been since inception.
Also, despite having the weapons there hasnt been the slightest hint that they would use them unilaterally
but given that iran arms terrorists (who admire the Hitler and the holocaust by the way….yes..i have vidoe links too) and would love the opportunity to use a limited strike against an israeli city, then the weapons are not in safe hands. No country in the world trusts the current iranian leadership in this instance
unilateral use by Israel is the big stick always showing over its shoulder – "no hint" indeed.
its a bit late once the hints start turning into something stronger.
a mushroom cloud over Jerusalem is another outcome to the problem, but surely not one that most would contemplate ?
its a measure of the solution not resting with Iran that you’ll not find even the very strongest Iranian opponents of the present Iranian regime differing from it over this issue.
why should Israel have a nuclear monopoly in the Middle East ?
Like it is the only democracy in the region and is under continued threat from it’s neighbours.
Or will it just create further ill-feeling in the region toward Israel ?
Can it be any worse? You have certainly swallowed the anti-Israeki propaganda hook, line and sinker
Eternal victimhood and eternal ghetto-mentality will mean eternal insecurity for Israel.
That is complete an utter bollocks – have you ever been to Israel? How many Israelies have you met?
The Palestinians didn’t cause the Holocaust.
What the hell has the Holocaust got to do with this?
The peaceful way out surely is for a strong and secure Palestinian state within "the land of Israel".
Why – the Palistinians, whoever they may be – you like pedantic definition Wit so explain what a Palistinian is for us – were not at all interested in any of the land that forms the State of Israel until the Israelies turned the land from desert into viable agricultural land with their irrigation projects.
Not suprisinly i agree with all pauls statemenst but i must add i found this
Eternal victimhood and eternal ghetto-mentality will mean eternal insecurity for Israel.
…unbelievable
One thing that has characterised israel in my eyes in the lack of squealing and the general "get on with it" mentality. Which is why they have a strongly developed economy which is up there with the world leaders in some areas such as It and pharma (unlike Syria, iran, saudi etc etc etc )
as for the ghetto mentality…i dont know whether that is a jibe at jewish history…but what are they supposed to do ? Let hezbollah fire rockets endlessly at them? Allowed the arab nations to invade in 67? Jesus christ..
Perhaps a loo at the attitudes of the people and countries surrounding them might give a rough idea as to their somewhat obvious security concerns?
why should Israel have a nuclear monopoly in the Middle East ?
Like it is the only democracy in the region and is under continued threat from it’s neighbours.
Might that be because the US and UK spend their time upsetting the regional democracies from Mossadeq’s in Iran in 1953 to the present day, when they put the interests of their own folk before those of the US and UK ? Don’t assume Israel is immune to that either – the world is changing.
Its not much of a “democracy” when you look at what its doing in Gaza, chemical weapons and all. Not much different from bombing Kurds, is it ?
Or will it just create further ill-feeling in the region toward Israel ?
Can it be any worse? You have certainly swallowed the anti-Israeki propaganda hook, line and sinker
For sure it will be a lot worse. You have certainly swallowed the pro-Israeli propaganda of the Western establishment. Different picture if you step outside that cocoon and look at the position without the baggage of past and present interests of empire in the region.
Eternal victimhood and eternal ghetto-mentality will mean eternal insecurity for Israel.
That is complete an utter bollocks – have you ever been to Israel? How many Israelies have you met?
Have you ever been to Iran ? How many Iranians have you met ? Have you ever been even to any of the states bordering Israel and met their nationals?
In my line of business I’ve come across many Jews, but not many Zionists – which do you mean by Israelites ? As a group I’ve found them no different to the Persian and Arab muslims – overwhelmingly warm and hospitable . Hardly surprising, since they’re from common stock. As with peoples everywhere, you rarely find their political leaders speak for them, but that’s where the nonsense comes.
‘Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial.’ – Ariel Sharon
‘This country exists as the fulfilment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy.’ – Golda Meir
It’s all in the Old Testament, so can do as you like.
And they wonder where Islamic extremists get their ideas.
The Palestinians didn’t cause the Holocaust.
What the hell has the Holocaust got to do with this?
Exactly – so why whisk every VIP straight up to Yad Veshem ?
The peaceful way out surely is for a strong and secure Palestinian state within "the land of Israel".
Why – the Palistinians, whoever they may be – you like pedantic definition Wit so explain what a Palistinian is for us – were not at all interested in any of the land that forms the State of Israel until the Israelies turned the land from desert into viable agricultural land with their irrigation projects.
For present purposes, Palestinians are those folk Israel has now penned into Gaza and is bombs periodically with explosives and white phosphorous.
‘It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialisation, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.’ – Ariel Sharon
Not suprisinly i agree with all pauls statemenst but i must add i found this
Eternal victimhood and eternal ghetto-mentality will mean eternal insecurity for Israel.
…unbelievable
One thing that has characterised israel in my eyes in the lack of squealing and the general "get on with it" mentality. Which is why they have a strongly developed economy which is up there with the world leaders in some areas such as It and pharma (unlike Syria, iran, saudi etc etc etc )
as for the ghetto mentality…i dont know whether that is a jibe at jewish history…but what are they supposed to do ? Let hezbollah fire rockets endlessly at them? Allowed the arab nations to invade in 67? Jesus christ..
Perhaps a loo at the attitudes of the people and countries surrounding them might give a rough idea as to their somewhat obvious security concerns?
No surprise you agree with Paul – I fear you are both in the same media cocoon, swallowing the constant pro-Israeli propaganda of the Western establishment, born of empire.
The whole problem is that Israel is “getting on with” stealing ever more land..
No wonder it has a “strongly developed economy”. It is a client state of the US, the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic, military and technical assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War II. Its purpose seems to be to be in a permanent state of conflict to maintain some sort of “regional balance” desired by the US.
The ghetto mentality is that it has never made any real effort to get on with its neighbours. No compromise, drive them into the sea, the Old Testament says so. For a nation with so many clever people, there isn’t much day-to-day wisdom on show among the leadership.
US and UK interests are all about keeping the oil coming to them. Israel is there to put a veneer on that.
Doubtless there are those who believe the bit about “beacon of democracy” despite the human rights abuses, but when – for whatever reason – the oil comes out of the equation , goodnight Vienna.
Israel is the one that’s brought nuclear into the Middle East.
What drivel
The aid from the US has largely been directed towards defence and rightly so. The oil states are far more "clients states" of teh US and the UK with revenues that far outstrip Israels.
And where are Iran and Saudi’s leading pharma and it firms?
More patents issued to South Korea last year than the whole of the arab world put togther
Israel is not there to protect Iran and saudis oil exports. Are you serious? Regardless of who runs these countries, they need their market…
Oh and I have a nice interesting link to Ron Paul and his backers , which would explain his interesting views on the jewish state
So the Oslo agreement was israels attempt to "drive them into the sea was it"?
An agreement that came withn a hairsbreath of every palestinian demand?
Your generalisations about the Jewish state are verty close to the mark
ah yes, Oslo:
Norwegian historian HILDE HENRIKSEN WAAGE, 2008:
In Norway, the secret negotiations culminating in the 1993 Oslo agreement are still seen as a shining moment in the nation’s history, so when the files of the entire process were discovered to be missing from government archives, a minor public scandal erupted.
After laying out the Oslo “myth” and its cast of characters, the author recounts the story of the disappearance of the files, new revelations concerning their scope, and the (thus far unsuccessful) quest to recover them.
The author concludes by exploring the implications of the backchannel negotiations for the entire Oslo process and its lessons for conflict resolution, particularly third-party mediation in highly asymmetrical conflicts.
>>>>>>
Even without access to primary documents it had been possible to put together what is increasingly recognized (at least in academic circles) as an accurate picture of what happened in the Oslo channel, particularly as concerns the structure of the mediation and its impact on the negotiation results.
Had the missing documents (especially the extensive Holst material whose existence has now been confirmed) been accessible at the time of writing, there seems no doubt that the findings of my report would have shown even more starkly the extent to which the Oslo process was conducted on Israel’s premises, with Norway acting as Israel’s helpful errand boy.
Indeed, it is not far-fetched to suggest that the very prospect of making public blow by- blow descriptions of the mediation could have some bearing on why the files went missing in the first place.
Such considerations may even have played a role in the MFA’s decision to renounce its claim to the files, and explain the “news blackout” on the subject that followed.
It seems clear that important interests both inside and outside government are determined to avoid a critical discussion of Norway’s peacemaking and peace-building efforts, on which billions of dollars are spent.
Given the overwhelming imbalance of power between the Israelis and the Palestinians, Norway probably could not have acted otherwise if it wanted to reach a deal—or even if it wanted to play a role in the process at all.
Israel’s red lines were the ones that counted, and if the Palestinians wanted a deal, they would have to accept them, too.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
http://www.palestine-studies.org/files/ … /10107.pdf
You and Paul have each declared above that its OK to have nuclear weapons in the case of a regime which you judge as democratic and which you judge needs them for self-defence.
If the world is to accept the two of you as arbiters of who can and who cannot have nuclear weapons, could you perhaps indicate your suitability for the role by indicating agreement or otherwise with the following:
A. "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘Drive them out!"
— Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.B. "
create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
— Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton’s standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen’s remarks to the Knesset’s foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)C. "Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
— Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989D. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours…Everything we don’t grab will go to them."
— Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.E. "There is no such thing as a Palestinian people… It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn’t exist."
— Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.F. "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
— David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion)What drivel
The aid from the US has largely been directed towards defence and rightly so. The oil states are far more "clients states" of teh US and the UK with revenues that far outstrip Israels.
no, the oil states are former colonies of the US and UK: they pay to buy low-tech military hardware.
Israel is the client state that gets given the high-tech military hardware (and then seems to try and sell bits of it on to the Chinese!)
And where are Iran and Saudi’s leading pharma and it firms?
More patents issued to South Korea last year than the whole of the arab world put togther
look above – never denied Israel has clever people. just not wise leaders.
Israel is not there to protect Iran and saudis oil exports. Are you serious? Regardless of who runs these countries, they need their market…
oh, its there to protect them OK. again look above – the reason some Israel supporters may think its there, is not the reason its there as far as US, UK, etc are concerned. Anglo-Iranian oil company from the late 40s, and onwards.
Oh and I have a nice interesting link to Ron Paul and his backers , which would explain his interesting views on the jewish state
go on then, i’m interested
no, the oil states are former colonies of the US and UK: they pay to buy low-tech military hardware
You call the arms that have been sold to Saudi over the years "low tech"?
As for that Oslo stuff..whats that all about?
you know as well as i do and as well as clinton did and most impartial observers acknowledge, that the Palestinians were granted a huge proportion of their demands at Oslo (some clacualtions nailed it at 98%). who gets every last cent of anything in negotiations? That was their chance and they blew it. And we know why
Ron Paul
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