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If you don’t think Dee Ex Bee “stayed” then your definition is a lot different to mine, ham.
Punters eventually identified Dee Ex Bee as value and backed him in to single figures.
Suspect we’ll see both Southern France and Dee Ex Bee in staying races next season if not this. Wouldn’t be surprised if Johnston targets the Champion Long Distance race on Champions Day. Further he goes the more chance he’ll have. Although is lazy these days and may never get back to Derby form.Value Is EverythingMy point was being 1 and 3/4 lengths ahead of a bunch and 9 lengths behind the winner and finishing 4 doesnt exactly prove his stamina, there is no value in anything if the horse cant win and this horse cant win. Value means nothing in this instance.
Are you saying if a horse doesn’t win it doesn’t stay, ham?
First two today are bloody good horses, Lah Ti Dar would’ve won most St Legers. Dee Ex Bee’s 4th was not as good as his Derby 2nd, but had it been up to his Epsom form he still wouldn’t have been in the first two.
Even so, he was staying on well at the end of 1 3/4 miles. Therefore he stayed the trip.
A horse does not need to win to stay.
Value Is EverythingGinge??
Bordering good to firm???I was there today and IMO no way was there any firm in the going description.
I am not a clock expert but every race was slower than standard some more than others.
Never said they need to win, im saying if it finishes marginally infront of a bunched up pack and they didnt stay, its likely he didnt stay aswell as you think either, kew gardens hasnt improved 10lbs in todays race, he just oustayed the 2 in behind over a trip that suits him.
But if a horse whos a stayer Is 0-8 over staying trips, at what point do you just say hes not that good over staying trips lol…
Very enjoyable race and the winner won nicely.
Seamie I thought was holding onto more on SF, there was a point when KG was off the bridle as he started to nudge and instead of going on SF he waited for KG to start coming alongside before starting to push properly. Not sure he’d have won but he’d have been much closer
Definitely one to follow next season. LTD wasn’t as strong a stayer I thought and probably wouldve liked it slightly slower. Hopefully she makes amends in the F&Ms.
I’ve said all along that Dee Ex Bee is a consistent horse but only at a certain level. That would be why he hasn’t won a decent race yet.
If you leave his Derby RPR of 119 out of the figures, the other 5 of his last 6 runs read as follows:-
110, 110, 110, 111, 109
Isn’t that confirmation that the horse is a consistent trier at a level of about 110?
Why would anyone defy the body of evidence and try to insist that the horse is capable of reproducing the Derby figure, away from Epsom of all place, a track where I never bet outside of the Derby meeting.
I think Dee Ex Bee kept on well enough today at one pace but it can be the case that a horse is weakening in relation to the winner and placed horses but seeming to keep on in relation to the ones weakening more dramatically.
Old Persian ran much more comfortably than Dee Ex Bee for a lot of the way but he was the one horse in the race who patently didn’t stay. He may have more to give back at a mile and a half and he may win something decent one day.
Loxley at 6/1 was a mystery to me. I have never rated the horse at all and can recall stating early doors that he wasn’t one for me. He was pretty feeble today, total nonsense as value. The Pentagon has gone nowhere this year and ran his normal anonymous race.
I remain puzzled that I backed Kew Gardens at 6/1 for the Lingfield Derby trial only to see him run poorly at odds-on, looking like an operation for a stiff anus was in order. Give the horse his due, he seemed to get his mojo back by slackening his buttocks in pursuit of the sacrificial pacemaker, Nelson, who has not run on his merits since Adam was a boy, and has looked more like the horse who won the Zetland in good style as a 2YO.
Not a bad St Leger overall but for me it’s usually a race that lies a bit under Group 1 quality year in year out.
Well done winners, Kew Garden returned at good value in the end. Loxley was the worst value in many a year. A barge dressed up as a speedboat if ever there was.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Great shout from darren83 early doors Kew Gardens 25/1 and Southern France EW
and Ant, silent assassins too, hope you kept the faith.
All other Southern France supporters on a decent place bet, I think Jack and Mike007 picked him out…well doneHaving missed the price on Lah Ti Dar I was thinking along the same lines as Joe that Proschema would run well enough to get a place at 100/1 having run so well at York last time and with the going in his favour but like a lot of them he just didnt stay.
I think the Godolphin horses are beginning to pine for their winter holidays in Meydan some have been on the go since Meydan Thursday’s in March.
The Magician pulls it out of the hat again and his horses are back on course to scoop up the big end of season prizes..Jac
Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...Ginge??
Bordering good to firm???I was there today and IMO no way was there any firm in the going description.
I am not a clock expert but every race was slower than standard some more than others.
Your on course opinion is interesting, Raymo.
There was no firm or good-firm; but I thought it was bordering on good-firm.
Yes, the times were all slower than standard, but only fractionally slower.
St Leger on average just 0.023 seconds per furlong slower than standard and that’s despite pace taking a couple of furlongs or so to pick up.
Portland 0.007 seconds per furlong slower than standard.
Park Stakes and Champagne 0.203 slower per furlong, despite slow early fractions in both races. Indeed, if it wasn’t bordering on good-firm then Too Darn Hot’s already amazing final fractions are even more remarkable.
Class 2 mile handicap 0.134 slow per furlong.So they weren’t far at all off beating Racing Post Standard, which is why I thought it was “Good”, but imo nearer to good-firm than it was good-soft – if you see what I mean.
May be I was wrong, but could it have been firmer just below the surface than it looked from the top?
Value Is EverythingMay be I was wrong, but could it have been firmer just below the surface than it looked from the top?
Keep digging Ginge, there’s firm going down there somewhere
Blackbeard to conquer the World
Who’s digging?
Dig, dig, and another dig.
Keep digging, Nathan. LOLValue Is EverythingGuys i am back i been in hospital for last 2weeks now 100 percent better and watching this horse win cheer me up and 3rd for me gold cup horse next year happy place winning bet early on page 1 here.
Great to be back
Welcome back Darren, Kew Gardens a special performance, wouldn’t rule him out of the Arc.
You’re right, if there is a danger to Stradivarius it could easily be Southern France (or Dee Ex Bee).Value Is EverythingThank you Ham and Ginger.
For me i run Kew Gardens at breeders cup turf before went in hospital put him up on twitter at 20/1 for race and with leger winners have poor records in arc.Last 2 AOB winners.Apart from Conduit not know who last leger winner to win a group one in same year after winning leger.
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