Pregnant Man

[Ugly Mare]

I caught up with this documentary the other day and found that I rather like Thomas Beatie.
If anyone else watched then I would be interested to hear their opinions, although I imagine some will think of him solely as a ‘lesbian with a beard’, I prefer to go along with his own self identification and give him respect for that. I do not see him as a woman although he was quite stunning in his former life.

He seemed well in control and determined to form a traditional family grouping, a married man with 2 children, such is the aim of many and I’m sure he will make a good father with happy children, in contrast to so many we hear about today.
I see him as simply making use of his physical capabilities to bear children as his wife is unable to do so. In this, a man uncomfortably ahead of his time I think.

What disturbs me more is the use of, presumably, an unknown sperm donor. I think it’s presumptious to imagine that his children will never need to know, or want to know who their genetic father was.

Other than that, I found Mr Beatie to be well adjusted and confident in his identity, and I don’t blame him for making some money out of it.

I also think the recent comments made by the Pope, were aimed at people like Mr Beatie as much or more than the homosexual community.
I think Thomas got his back up.

[zome]

I’m very much live and let live on the matter, but thought the guy and his partner doing a documentary like the one on Channel 4 could be harmful towards themselves and their children. There are a lot of very closed minded people in the world, who are very set in their ways, and those people will never change and will always dislike things they do not understand.
I found some of the quotes and clips of the people directing hate and abuse towards the couple the most disturbing thing about the program… the pregnant man i took completely in my stride.
I also agree with the sperm donor comment. As a gay woman myself i do ponder that i MIGHT want children one day, and what means i’d use, eg Adoption/fostering, or a donor. I can relate to wanting a child made of my own flesh and blood, but there is a certain element of selfishness to this i suppose, as the child would only know one half of it’s creators, unless the father was involved… which could cause even more complication and confusion for a child. I’d be cautious of having children, as i would be scared of them being bullied and ridiculed all their life for having gay parents. It’s sad to feel this way, but the population is only adjusting very slowly.

I would imagine the children of the ‘Pregnant man’ family are going to be very confused, but the couple seemed good, caring people and they’lll hopefully have an extremely happy upbringing if the witch hunters let them be. I personally still would find it hard to identify the guy, as a guy though.

[Ugly Mare]

Thanks for your replies.

Mart, I’m sorry to hear you never met your father, I presume you know who he was though, even if you’ve never met him?
I couldn’t agree more with your points about individual responsibility regardless of sexuality and the Pope and others with that attitude should be aiming their attacks on those mostly responsible for child abuse and breakdown of families, and that wouldn’t be homosexuals would it?

Zome,
thanks for your candid response, I appreciate that, even if I don’t agree with all you say, inasmuch that I found it a little negative regarding gay parenting. I understand your concerns and it’s easy for me to say as I’m never going to be in that position, but I don’t think it would put me off if I was. Why should you be deprived of motherhood when others are not? I wouldn’t see it as selfish.

Regarding Mr Beatie, do you then see him, or ‘her’ as a lesbian in your eyes, and if I may use this term a ‘butch dyke’ ? If so, this surprises me a little. I do wonder if these people would be better off, even though I don’t think it’s what they desire, to be regarded legally and socially as a kind of 3rd sex, an in between, as it seems almost impossible for them to be looked upon as the gender to which they feel they belong. It might be better for them and more acceptable to the mainstream, providing of course that all things are equal and it was not thought of as a lower status.
One does find this occurring quite often in Aboriginal and non-Christian cultures, more historic than present day I think.

[zome]

I have realised I may have come across as a little negative towards gay parenting which i’m a bit suprise about, but this is only my personal view. For gay couples who are confident enough and capable to have children, i fully support them, as i would any straight couple who wants to start a family. Maybe i’m just a wimp, i’d be constantly scared for my child being bullied etc, therefore i’d end up being part of a negative effect on my child… and ie, not a good parent! Maybe my thoughts will change as i get older, and hopefully wiser too.

I think i only percieve Thomas as still very much a woman, because he’s given birth to his own child. Wether he/she is a lesbian or not isn’t a factor as sexuality is fluid, whereas gender isn’t so much. I’m not against sex changes one bit, people should be what they want to be if it’s safe for them to do so. It’s just not something i personally can relate to.

[moehat]

there was a really sad programme on tv a year or so ago about a few people undergoing sex change operations and one rather young lad went throught the lot only to find that he regretted it;..

[Ugly Mare]

that’s terrible. I wonder if the screening process isn’t as efficient as it should be.

This reminds me of when we were holidaying in Fiji in the year 2000 during George Speight’s coup d’etat, where we found ourselves almost alone in a nice hotel with a few Germans, everyone else had fled.

On departure we were met by a delightful young lady at the reception desk wearing a flower in her hair as they do there, to indicate whether they are married or single and available, but I noticed she had rather a deep voice and on looking again I realised she was not quite what she seemed. My husband noticed it too.

The Fijian staff didn’t take any notice of her which indicated to me that Polynesians have a form of acceptance and tolerance that is different to ours, and this in a country where homosexuality is illegal, and the main religion is Christian Methodist. It made me wonder whether they thought of her as a woman or as a kind of separate sex.

Whatever, she undercharged us so we were happy, and rushing to leave I wasn’t going to ask them what they thought of her as we had a flight to catch.
In fact, I felt like Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca clutching my exit visa, so relieved were we to get away from that troubled island.

All the military activity and demonstrations during the night we were frightened to be rounded up like usual suspects..lol…which is a shame as ethnic Fijians seemed to be the nicest people you could wish to meet, something I could not say about their Indo-Fijian compatriots.

Mart,
I’m sure you’ve been called worse things..lol..
you’ve got the best mum but I do wonder if lacking a father has caused you some emotional problems now as an adult….? or would you say that was unconnected?

zome,
No I don’t think you’re a wimp at all, just cautious and there’s nothing wrong in that. It would be a big decision to make in any case and not something most of us could understand I think, unless we were directly affected.

[gamble]

hmmm Ingrid Bergmann..
it is obvious Ugly Mare
you left with a conscience

I will tackle this issue head on.

As far as gay couples actually conceiving
I would need more time to get my head around it
but my first gut reaction is to be ag’in it.
Hmm as I am ag’in many hetrosexuals
who conceive unecessarily to fill up tescos
and remove all the best booze offers.
I’d bang the latter lot up in a rabbit warren
and throw in an eight foot rabbit.

My greatest concern is for anyone in this house
to own up to parenting possibly the greatest scourge
to hit society since the great plague.
I am talking of course about bankers.
I went to a stand up party in November
and was in the mood for a bit of coarse,
not a banker in sight,
not even a tiller girl,
and I checked for manicured nails.
Who’s hiding them ?

p.s.

As for gay couples fostering children
that will be solely dependent
on the type of society the
children will be brought up in
and the merits of the couple

[Ugly Mare]

Mart, an expression has come to mind that I think might apply to you, in a complimentary manner you understand. A person ‘well adjusted to his mal-adjustments’. I think so.

My dear Gamble, how nice to see you again around these parts, and thank you for contributing, if in a somewhat illiberal mood I detect. Your last paragraph I think, should apply to all.

[moehat]

as Larkin said ‘they **** you up your mum and dad’…even I guess if they love you too much/not enough/are absent/straight/gay/……..and there’s also ‘first we love our parents, then we judge our parents then, if they’re lucky we forgive them’……think everybody I know is teetering on the edge of something……..[or could be the wine]

[gamble]

Ugly Mare,
liberalism was devoured
in the hyena fest that was
2000 and ate.

I credit you with being
a well rounded individual
with experiences of the nuances
and subtelties of life,
however, you must bend more
like me, and change with the times.

Morality changes
as society supersizes itself.
That supersize brings terrific stresses
and strains on states and societies
and nature itself.
We have both evidenced the frenzies
and the fallout.
More control is needed
and sadly we must begin
to chew on liberalism
like a dead flower
in realising the world has seeded
itself out of control
and is in desperate need
of new minds
and new solutions.

( Hughie Green would have loved this )

[Ugly Mare]

…must be the Great Depression we are in Moe. Can’t recall a time like it can you? Winter of Discontent perhaps?

Mart, – very good news, and congratulations

gamble, the soothsayer and thank you for your advice, I shall certainly try to bend as much as I can, but not when my husband is around

[gamble]

This is like an Ann Summers tuppy party
Marble gives me two minutes
Ugly Mare you give me one.
Rather proves my point
about the numerical excesses
of our society

edited

[gamble]

I have had my rant
and given an off the cuff opinion.
I have rather led the discussion away
and apologies to all for the hijacking.
I have been got at today
by excessive numbers of two leggeds
..that is in the real world, or rather
the artificial world filled with hubris
and overcowding,
and the stress
must out.

[dave jay]

Is this the story about the woman, who wanted to be a bloke and then decided she wanted to have a baby because she didn’t like that bit of being a bloke? Maybe when the kids born she might decide to be a bloke again and get a job as a lorry driver, so she doesn’t have to change nappies and get up in the middle of the night. Who knows what she might want to do next .. ?

[Ugly Mare]

don’t know that one Dave, sorry…lol…well, it’s one way of looking at it.

gamble, you can always have more than a minute with me [that’s if you want one], you know that….
and no need to apologise for hijacking…it’s something most of us do and often for the good I think

[gamble]

I feel like I have been got at by a liberal.

Erm, well rounded one,
possibly a minute with
your liberal tendencies
might remove the jagged edge
and still the hare
but like the questionable
last late night krone
there is always that
next morning bear
feeling to deal with

the rhapsody
tells it different though

tell me
how I’m supposed to breathe
with no bear, no bear
no bear

[Drone]

I have been got at today
by excessive numbers of two leggeds
..that is in the real world, or rather
the artificial world filled with hubris
and overcowding,
and the stress
must out.

Time for a time-out bleating one?
Look back north, then east across the sea
Scalby Ness
Cornelian Bay
Cayton Bay
The new-year cure-all far from the madding crowd

been there, done that again and again, and again this very weekend

it’s all too beautiful

[Author]

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