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The Horseman’s Tariff

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  • #339373
    Avatar photoCav
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    • Total Posts 4833

    I guess we can look out for a proliferation of formerly class 4, novice, maiden and beginner events then. A type rather than class tariff would certainly be a more logical way of protecting prizemoney in these events.

    #339456
    Avatar photoCav
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    Two jumps meetings today on day 2 of the tariff.

    Market Rasen
    Time…Tariff…Actual…Abv Tariff
    01:35… 3924… 3500…

    02:05… 7085… 7100…

    02:35… 8720… 8750…

    03:05… 3924… 3500…

    03:35… 4742… 4500…

    04:05… 1363… 1500…

    04:35… 2180… 1850…


    Sedgefield
    Time…Tariff…Actual…Abv Tariff
    01:55… 2616… 2600…

    02:25… 3924… 3600…

    02:55… 4742… 5200…

    03:25… 3924… 4000…

    03:55… 2834… 3600…

    04:25… 2180… 2000…


    The best race of the day in prizemoney terms is the above tariff £8750 offered for the novices chase at Market Rasen. It attracts

    3

    runners. :?

    Noteable trainers to seemingly ignore the Horsemen’s recommendations today are…
    Nicky Henderson
    Alison Thorpe
    Tim Easterby
    Malcom Jefferson
    Sue Smith
    Henrietta Knight
    Alan King
    Peter Bowen
    Dr Newland
    Charlie Mann
    Alan Swinbank
    Howard Johnson
    Donald McCain
    Ferdy Murphy

    "I see it developing as it moves forward"

    said Horseman’s Group CEO Alan Morecombe.

    #339466
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    Cav

    It seems to be the case that in many of these novice races, the opposition are frightened off by one or two ‘hot’ horses, partly because they don’t want to run against them because they don’t think they can beat them but also because if they finish close up to such a horse they may be hammered by the handicapper (as Jose has illustrated on his thread).

    In those circumstances the prizemoney doesn’t appear to be enough to compensate them for that risk.

    I think what that tells me is that the prizemoney should be concentrated more on the handicaps rather than novice races as connections of novices will tend to plan a campaign around factors other than prizemoney.

    A little bit of common sense from the racecourses would probably produce cards where all races are above the tariff level without actually putting in any more money.

    #339484
    Black Sam Bellamy
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    • Total Posts 444

    However you want to look at it…in these troubled times..on the back of a month of poor weather…for only three runners to turn up for a Tuesday afternoon Novice chase worth £5,692 to the winner, it’s very poor.

    Similar story at Musselburgh on Sunday when three runners turned up for a Class 3 Novice Chase worth £7,806 to the winner.

    Same story at Bangor on Friday when three runners turned up for a Class 3 Novice Chase worth £6,337 to the winner.

    Doesn’t reflect massively possitively on the Horseman’s Group does it ?

    If these races are going to attract such low numbers, can they not be dropped to Class 4..because the prize money is obviously of no consequence ? Put the money into Novice hurdles instead, as these attract better sized fields and therefore worthy of better returns.

    #339487
    Avatar photoCav
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    Completely agree with you, Tuffers. Why not put the money into races where the horses have a mark already? Hiding a horses true ability before its rated is more important than prizemoney money it seems, so why pay more? Nobody seems to have explained this basic fact of life to the Horseman’s Group. :?

    #339549
    Avatar photoMaxilon 5
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    I appreciate that artificial surface racing is the Ugly Sister of the sport, and my ire will fall upon deaf ears, but I do find the details recounted in Black Sam Bellamy’s post above offensive and embarrassing.

    Check the prize money for Southwell today and Kempton tomorrow. Then look at the field sizes. The owners and trainers of artificial surface horses deserve much better than to watch unexciting, levy unfriendly three runner novice chases run for four times the average sand prize.

    If Miss Woodford et al are reading this: Do certain American tracks cancel races which don’t reach a specified field size?

    #339558
    Avatar photoanthonycutt
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    I appreciate that artificial surface racing is the Ugly Sister of the sport, and my ire will fall upon deaf ears, but I do find the details recounted in Black Sam Bellamy’s post above offensive and embarrassing.

    Check the prize money for Southwell today and Kempton tomorrow. Then look at the field sizes. The owners and trainers of artificial surface horses deserve much better than to watch unexciting, levy unfriendly three runner novice chases run for four times the average sand prize.

    If Miss Woodford et al are reading this: Do certain American tracks cancel races which don’t reach a specified field size?

    For me, the argument would be that the prize money for jumps should be higher as the horses don’t race as often & the risk of injury is higher.

    That said, if the money is put up & the trainers aren’t biting, and that continues over a period of time, then take the money away & redirect it somewhere else. And certainly there should be no prize money for simply turning up & getting round

    #339564
    Avatar photoCav
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    Amongst the more notable national hunt trainers to ignore the tariff today are…

    Lucinda Russell
    Tom Tate
    Micky Hammond
    Martin Todhunter
    Richard Lee
    Jim Goldie
    David Evans
    Evan Williams
    Kim Bailey
    John Quinn
    Henry Daly
    Suzy Smith

    In fairness to Ludlow they are above tariff on five of their seven races, the other two are within one hundred quid. Philip Hobbs and the Twister both have runners at Ludlow but haven’t broken ranks yet. Not sure if the 3:45 at Carlisle is above or below tariff.

    #339577
    Avatar photoDrone
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    I appreciate that artificial surface racing is the Ugly Sister of the sport, and my ire will fall upon deaf ears, but I do find the details recounted in Black Sam Bellamy’s post above offensive and embarrassing.

    If all were Cinderella, none would be beautiful would they stepsister? :)

    My perfectly formed ears are open and I largely agree with you, as it ‘appens

    Below is one of my verbose ramblings in reply to two posts from last year that touched on the problem of over-endowed small-field novice chases

    Thanks for the daily tariff updates CR, very interesting

    Too much Mediocre racing, oh and if they don’t want to enter horses lets cut the number of Novices Chases so we get some decent sized fields.

    Completely agree zilzal –

    If there are fewer than 6 starters they should reduce the prize money to 85% of original purse for 5 runners, 70% if 4, 55% for 3 and 40% for races with 2 runners.

    You might argue that such a move is unfair on those who do run but sometimes these races are no more than a means of subsidy for the top yards.

    If they won’t run in them then I would argue there’s too many of them and they (the number of them) should be pruned significantly.

    Loath to use the word ‘schooling’ but I’m sure most will agree that yer general early-mid season Novice Chase is essentially an ‘educational’ race, and many are run as such. The horses are raced ‘with an eye to the future’ and punters too should consider them as ‘formbook building’ races for use later on.

    Therefore I for one have no problem with the preponderance of small fields; infact I actually welcome them as it allows the participants to concentrate on the jumping learning curve unencumbered by the proximity of a mass of other horses. That they may be poor ‘uncompetitive’ betting material is of no consequence; there’s likely to be some juicy handicap to get stuck into soon afterwards, so take five watch and learn.

    By the same token though, given the educational aspect, a reduction in prize money – large or small fields – wouldn’t bother me, would be a good idea in these cash-strapped times, and in all likelihood wouldn’t unduly bother connections

    And are small field chases necessarily as poor entertainment as they may be betting fodder? Not in my view. The memories of those young ‘good old fashioned chasing types’ of Gordon Richards leaping the big black drops of Haydock with two or three lesser individuals a distance behind remains vivid

    An adept novice chaser leaping alone is a thrilling experience for those who love to see a majestic steeplechaser in action

    Racing ain’t all about levy-yield and value-betting is it?

    #339592
    Avatar photoMaxilon 5
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    • Total Posts 2432

    I have (of course) read your missives, sir. :D

    There is a very interesting comment piece in the RP today from Julian Muscat which has plenty to say on both small fields and, more controversially, the unwillingness of trainers to run their star horses before Cheltenham.

    There is also a piece on Page 5 where it is revealed Wolverhampton have just reopened four races on Saturdays card. An unnamed NTF rep said that a) there aren’t enough horses to go round and b) anecdotal evidence suggests that owners have begun to cut their losses.

    Nice updates, Cav.

    #339599
    Avatar photoCav
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    Thanks. Will track it until Sunday to see how the first 7 days of the new system have been received, wont bore anyone beyond that. Looks like the remainder of the big boys will be crossing the tariff line at Newbury on Saturday.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/fe … se-newbury

    #339606
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    • Total Posts 1402

    I have (of course) read your missives, sir. :D

    There is a very interesting comment piece in the RP today from Julian Muscat which has plenty to say on both small fields and, more controversially, the unwillingness of trainers to run their star horses before Cheltenham.

    There is also a piece on Page 5 where it is revealed Wolverhampton have just reopened four races on Saturdays card. An unnamed NTF rep said that a) there aren’t enough horses to go round and b) anecdotal evidence suggests that owners have begun to cut their losses.

    Nice updates, Cav.

    Wolverhampton’s Friday card has four races with just 6 runners and Southwell’s Friday card has two six runner races and a four runner race with two of the other races having single figure fields.

    #339652
    cjboy
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    • Total Posts 127

    The three runner Novice Chase at Musselburgh the other day was the best race on the card to watch, but I didn’t have a bet and rarely do. I just like to see good horses jumping well, and the tactics of the top jockeys unfolding. In that race Graham Lee out-thought Brian Hughes.

    #339655
    Black Sam Bellamy
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    • Total Posts 444

    Good prize money on offer at Taunton again tomorrow. Decent competitive fields.

    Meanwhile Nicky Henderson and Alan King break rank at Huntingdon with runners in more than one sub-tarriff races.

    The Hunter Chase at Huntingdon is worth £750 to the winner. I know it’s for hunters but when was the last time a race was run for as little as that on a UK racecourse?

    #339693
    Avatar photoCav
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    Of the more noteable national hunt trainers to join the tariff breakers list today are…

    George Baker
    Oliver Sherwood
    Charlie Longsdon
    Tom George
    Bob Buckler
    Ian Williams
    Lucy Wadham
    Tim Vaughan
    The Twister
    Colin Tizzard
    Brendan Powell
    The Great Struggler (aka Barney Curley)

    Huntingdon who are sub tariff on 5 of their 7 races today will be pleased with their turnout. The Twister is the latest big name trainer to break ranks. Somebody needs to go and speak to the management at Taunton. They are comparatively exemplary on prizemoney again today, beating by some distance the tariff on all 7 races at the venue this afternoon.

    #339703
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    • Total Posts 1402

    Four of Wolverhampton’s six races on Saturday night have been re-offered this morning. Lingfield’s afternoon card looks quite healthy by comparison. Is this tariff related?

    #339708
    Avatar photoMaxilon 5
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    • Total Posts 2432

    Lingfield is a lovely track, which always helps, Tuffers. Also, I think the card on Saturday is a non-levy funded Horsemens card and thus functions outside the tariff.

    The Horsemens Cards are the (roughly) one hundred and fifty or so fixtures threatened with excision earlier this year and subsequently renegotiated by the Horsemen and the racecourses.

    Bryan Smart also said in the piece I mentioned earlier that there are problems with the Wolverhampton surface – "not riding as well as it should do" – and he was reluctant to run his horses there.

    (The winddown of the winter flat season? The M6 roadworks? Dancing on Ice on TV? Mick McCarthy? Fears over the re-eruption of the caldera at Krakatoa…(etc etc).)

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