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WTF? Do you not see that the biggest oil companies ARE directly responsible for the problems this planet faces? <br>For the record, I feel no sympathy for people who are poor, yet still choose to bring eight kids into that very same world of poverty. They are their own worst enemy.
I don’t really feel like arguing the point to tell the truth. You either want to drive the extra 100yds or so to the next petrol station, or you don’t. If you don’t, then fine.
Indeed, the biggest oil companies are responsible for some of the serious problems this planet faces. But you weren’t complaining about that, nor were you suggesting a boycott of these companies because of their appalling record in third world countries. Your outrage was directed at the fact that we in the UK may have to pay more for our petrol, a cause which, as I have already stated, is hardly an important or worthy one.
Who mentioned families with 8 children? I simply pointed out that this is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. But while we are on the subject, did it ever occur to you that, in a country with a high infant mortality rate it might be that the more children you have, the more chance of them surviving into adulthood, finding work and looking after their family in old age?
You say you have no sympathy for such people. Well I have no sympathy for people who are fortunate enough to live in a wealthy country such as this one and whinge because the price of petrol may go up a few pence. Nor do I think your pontificating on how desperately poor families living in horrendous circumstances should conduct themselves is particularly edifying.
Finally, I am quite prepared to drive the hundred yards to the next petrol station, or to boycott companies altogether, for a worthy cause. The cause you espouse, however, is neither worthy nor important and your dismissal of the poor in the Third World as being their own worst enemy does you no credit.
As you do not wish to argue the point any further, perhaps we should leave it there.
(Edited by Aranalde at 4:49 pm on Sep. 3, 2005)
*Removes hunting rifle from display case, and loads one round in the barrel*
"did it ever occur to you that, in a country with a high infant mortality rate it might be that the more children you have, the more chance of them surviving into adulthood, finding work and looking after their family in old age?"
And did it occur to you that if there were not so many people to feed, there maybe wouldn’t be such dire poverty in the first place?
"You say you have no sympathy for such people."
That’s not what I said Aranalde, and you know it. I said that people that have lots of children, knowing full well that most cannot be fed, do not get my sympathy.
"your dismissal of the poor in the Third World as being their own worst enemy does you no credit"
Please don’t presume to tell me what does, and does not, do me credit based on what you misquoted me on.
Conversation over.
… exchange stops … 22:27 …
Quote: from Racing Daily on 10:27 pm on Sep. 3, 2005<br>"You say you have no sympathy for such people."
That’s not what I said Aranalde, and you know it.
I’m a little confused here ~ that’s not even what you said paraphrased ~ it’s exactlly what you said. I’m not in agreement with your original remarks on this thread, but am perfectly happy for you to express those views, although I am in agreement with Aranalde in finding your comments about Third World poverty crass and ill-informed.
If you wish for a conversation to be over, by the way, it’s churlish to also desire to have the last word.
For the record, I feel no sympathy for people who are poor, yet still choose to bring eight kids into that very same world of poverty
A direct quote from your earlier post.
Unfortunately, poor families in the 3rd World find themselves in a situation where there is little or no access to birth control, little or no education, a high infant mortality rate and no state support whatsoever. Their only chance of surviving and prosepering is to have as many children as possible and to hope that those children can somehow find work or change the family’s fortunes. It is exactly what families in this country did for many centuries. I would simply reiterate that for someone in a wealthy country who has never been in this situation to pontificate on what families in desperate situations should and shouldn’t do is crass and it does not do you credit. The reason I say that it does not do you credit is that I have found your postings on other subjects to be interesting and well thought out.
*Removes hunting rifle from display case, and loads one round in the barrel*
The problem with guns is, if you’re not careful, you can easily shoot yourself in the foot. <br>
For the record, I completely agree that third world poverty is a scourge on a 21st century, so called ‘Capitalist’, society. It is certainly something that needs to be eradicated as quickly as possible. I find it intolerable that the rich countries of the world allow it to continue. However, I stand by my statement that I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who, knowing full well that their babies are going to starve to death, nonetheless have as many as humanly possible. My sympathies lie solely with the 18month old babies who routinely die as proverbial skeletons. To bring a baby into this world, knowing what future beholds it, and knowing that it will probably die a slow and painful death from malnutrition, is callous and uncaring in the extreme. This is where my sympathies lie.
Sorry if my thoughts on the subject do me no credit Aranalde. I am of the opinion that someone who beats around the bush is someone who cannot call themselves ‘credible’ in debate. That is my honest opinion on the subject. I feel sorrow for children who have no say in being born into poverty. I have nothing but anger for those who would bring them into a world of hurt.<br>As for me being better off than those we speak of … yes, that is true. But that does not mean that one should not be the best he can be, given the circumstances in the country he lives in. There is not a lot that I, as an individual, can do about world poverty.
BTW, the hunting rifle is now un-armed again, and locked securely in the display case. I left the safety catch on, so my monitor is luckily still intact ;)
Quote: from rory on 7:58 am on Sep. 4, 2005[br]
<br>If you wish for a conversation to be over, by the way, it’s churlish to also desire to have the last word.<br>
I’ve been looking for an excuse to blow the dust off of the Remington for quite a while now, rory :)
Racing Daily
I think we have come across something upon which we can both agree, that the continuing deprivation in many parts of the world shames us and that we should do more, at a governmental level and a personal level.
And of course, the greatest sympathy is reserved for those born into such grinding poverty.
I would still say that you are a little harsh on parents who, without the benefit of education and birth control (indeed in many areas, birth control is seen as wicked and unnatural) continue to have children. I think the high infant mortality rate works indirectly, I don’t for a moment think it is a concious decision to have more children because they are increasing their percentage chances of having surviving children, just that lack of education, lack of birth control, tradition and a host of other factors push them in this direction. Nor, I imagine, do they bring children into the world ‘knowing’ that they are going to die. They must hope and believe, as all parents do, that their children will survive them. It is a completely different world to the one we inhabit and I just feel that to pass judgement on them from this distance is harsh. But obviously, we disagree about this, and that’s fair enough.
I appreciate your honesty, though I would suggest that being considered ‘credible’ is not the point of a debate. If a debate/discussion is to be meaningful, then surely it is in the airing of different views, and in listening to the views expressed. I must say I have little sympathy with the modern fashion for venerating those who ‘have an opinion’. As far as I can tell, any human being with a pulse has an opinion. Radio and television is full of self-opinionated people giving us the benefit of their wisdom. I find it harder to keep my opinions to myself, then to blurt out what’s on my mind. It is an aim of mine to listen more and talk less (which I am some way from achieving). However, with that aim in mind, I will bring this post to a close.
Aranalde. You are quite amazing
You think that peolpe who live in third world countries are stupid! They dont know the facts of life! And they only have kids cos its traditional!
But dont pass judgement on them because its a bit harsh!
Pure Quality.
Driving about today minding my own business. I swiftly noticed every garage I passed had a queue. (I heard later from a parking attendant at Morrison’s that there was frenzied fighting on a forecourt in a Mansfield garage. Not that they need much of an excuse for a scrap up there).
Had OPEC been reading the Forum, I thought. No. The Truckers are back, it seems. On Wednesday. And no, Brownie still won’t cut the duties.
maxilon
This is a classic case of a self fulfilling prophecy.
"Panic on the forecourts" say the rags….so everyone panics. Corporal Jones would be proud.
Rob
Do not try and fool yourselves that your say so has such power<br>Or the say so of grand anti capitalist societies have weight in their words<br>You will pay 1.00 plus pounds per litre<br>No infact you will pay 2.00 no 3.00 pounds per litre probably more <br>When is the day when its 10000 pounds per litre<br>You will pay…..if you needed it …you will pay <br>As would I
Skyfuture
I just rolled into my local garage yesterday as I REALLY needed petrol but refused to wait behind the greedy buggers trying to bleed the pumps dry with their 4×4 school run machines. Surfice it to say limping to the garage this morning I laughed my head off as it was empty of cars and full of fuel.
They paid £1.10 a litre yesterday and today it was £0.95, the news has been saying for days it was only ever planned to be a protest (no blockade) but will the greedy people ever learn?
Would our generation have survived and won the 2nd world war? I don’t think so – Today’s greed culture would never get through rationing!!
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