- This topic has 127 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 11 months ago by
.
- Posts
The entries certainly give it more a of a group 2 look and not as good a field as we have seen of late. Probably still won’t make it any easier to find the winner though.
Dont forget we are already coming off the back of the Prince of Wales which was a Group 1 and the Irish Derby and not forgetting the Princess of Wales coming up at Newmarket next week.
Best race for me is the Group 2 Lanky Oaks at my local Haydock with the Old Newton Cup and these are probably much better races.
"Neil Watson" has hit the nail on the head with this one. The Prince of Wales used to be the ideal lead up for an older horse for the Eclipse – when it was a Group 2. Nowadays instead of being the major trial it is a direct competitor to the Eclipse.
It is also interesting to reflect that although the Eclipse is much more valuable, the allure of Royal Ascot has meant that the Prince of Wales is very quickly becoming as important a race
Best race for me is the Group 2 Lanky Oaks at my local Haydock with the Old Newton Cup and these are probably much better races.
Good luck if you’re going. Personally I wouldn’t go anywhere near Haddock on a Saturday outside the footy season
While the proximity of the Irish Derby and the Prince of Wales Stakes may have some impact for the Eclipse it doesn’t explain for instance the quality of last year’s field. Imo the Prince of Wales has never really been a trial for the Eclipse which has always been the place for 3 yos to take on their elders over a trip which is very important for future stallions.
It is a disappointing race this year for sure, but there is nothing wrong with the Eclipse long term imo – we have had some very good renewals over the last 5 years or so…
I think it depends very much on the connections of the leading horses in any given year. If you get an English based Derby winner (Motivator, Authorized etc) I think it is much more likely that they will show up in the Eclipse. I also think that O’Brien would normally have no qualms sending his leading 10f horse to this race. It just happens that this year he has probably seen it looks like a weak race and has cleverly targeted Mount Nelson at the race – a great chance for another G1 to boost that horse’s CV.
Have to say that your NRNB and full 1/4 each-way terms is terrific value TDK- bit of a loss leader (I hope!) Chanced Pipedreamer and Campanologist this morning, the latter in the expectation that he’ll become Frankie’s ride as I can’t see them risking Literato again on fast ground.
Im looking forward to seeing pheonix tower run in the eclipse and think he has a good chance with this weak renewel. Does anybody know if the rest of the card is any better? Cant get on rp website from my pc this week
I think Phoenix Tower looks to be the No1 contender on recent form, as his price drift at ascot suggested to me that he wasnt 100% that day, but he had a great chance on his lockinge run.
Campanologist would be my pick of the godolphin duo and loves the ground, however my only fear is that he may lack the speed to contest this against faster horses.
Im going to go on a hunch for the race though, as IMO its not a high class affair and there are no stand out horses for me, my hunch is thus:
No one loves a weakly contested group1 more than Stoute and no-one has been waiting for one longer than Maraahel and Rob Roy. To be fair they have ran with credit against some horses who are far better than this lot. This race has all the hallmarks of a "Ahh…why didnt I think of them this time
"Maraahel may well have regressed by a couple of pounds this season, but it was clear to see since ascot that this race was going to be poor and no doubt stouty will have been working overtime to try getting that extra bit of improvemnet out of his duo.
Rob Roy is contesting a 1m2f group1 on Gd-Fm for the first time and on a balance of his form I would expect he should be quite well suited to it. Outsped in the 2006 sussex stakes on Gd-Fm and outstayed in the 2006 Champ Stakes on Gd-Sft. Looked well behind Major Cadeux at Sandown earlier this season, Ryan Moore (last years brilliant winner) is up, why not?
At 12-1 Maraahel and 14-1 Rob Roy, they will be my bets for the race.
Why not?
Because at 0/14 and 0/7 in Group 1 races, both are fully exposed as not good enough.Have to say that your NRNB and full 1/4 each-way terms is terrific value TDK- bit of a loss leader (I hope!) Chanced Pipedreamer and Campanologist this morning, the latter in the expectation that he’ll become Frankie’s ride as I can’t see them risking Literato again on fast ground.
Agree with Campanologist. Clearly improving, and I think he’ll be the sole Godolphin runner. Backed him on Monday on Betfair, though not to large stakes.
I haven’t made my mind up with regard to Piepdreamer – do you think he needs G/F?
Why not?
Because at 0/14 and 0/7 in Group 1 races, both are fully exposed as not good enough.Is this a group1 race in anything else but name though Carvs? I would say it has more of group3 look about it. And both of these have won Group2s and 3s.
Noty only that but if Literato doesnt run then there isnt even a group1 winner in the field, and none of these look like serious group1 contenders.
I would say that I know both horses are capable of running into the low 120s at their best. I dont think I could say that about anything else in the field with any real confidence.
The statistics of 0/14 anmd 0/7 are not really relevant because all of those races were much tougher than this.
Lets face it though no-one can really heavily fancy something in this race.
I think we’re all going to find it difficult to believe one of these will be a Group 1 winner come Saturday evening!
If Rob Roy reproduced his Champion stakes performance behind Pride he would go close.
Where is the pace going to come from though?
CAMPANOLOGIST almost guaranteed. If they rode him and won from the front at ascot, they wont drop him two furlongs and ride him for speed, that would be insane. There may be a few that will stay prominent with him though if the ground is quick and so a decent pace should be guaranteed, but it will not be a great test of stamina on the likely ground.
I haven’t made my mind up with regard to Piepdreamer – do you think he needs G/F?
I remember them being very worried about fast ground before the Cambridgeshire, threatening not to run, but that run and his Royal Ascot run would suggest he copes with it OK. I’d say Gosden would like a bit of rain to take the jar out, nothing more. Let’s be honest, he shouldn’t be good enough, but this isn’t a normal Eclipse.
BTW Mount Nelson is a Group 1 winner at 2.Just out of ineterest Pipedreamer (Selkirk/Gone West) is very similar in pedigree to Sublimity (Selkirk/Miswaki). Pipedreamer definitely appears to go on gd-fm, as must have a good turn of foot.
Looks to be very little between Pipedreamer and Phoenix Tower and Multidimensional seems to have recovered his form and they will all handle the GF ground so these are the ones that appeal most to me though if Literato, a G1 winner, recovers his form of last season he would be good enough to be beat all of these.
"
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.