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Decision probably be made around 12 or 1 I would have thought, or whenever O’Brien actually gets to walk the track.
O’Brien should be fined a substantial amount for this. I don’t know what the maximum is but he deserves it.
O’Brien should be fined a substantial amount for this. I don’t know what the maximum is but he deserves it.
I’m no ballydoyle apologist, but I have some sympathy for O’Brien here.
After all, it’s not like he has accurate going declarations to work with.
Having said that
(1) mabye he would have won the race if he had run both horses
(2) Should trainers not have to declare their jocks the day before and, barring illness and injury, stick with them? Why wasn’t Ahern riding HN?
Steve
Aidan O’Brien was doing his best to ensure the well being and optimium performance (both today and for the future) of his horses. I would say that for betting purposes today’s race was a farce, at least until GW declared a n/r, but that is not his concern.
Quote: from cormack15 on 3:06 pm on Oct. 15, 2005[br]Aidan O’Brien was doing his best to ensure the well being and optimium performance (both today and for the future) of his horses.
Well he made the completely wrong decision – everyone knew that even before the race was run
When a jockey rides him as poorly as that, and the trainer picks the wrong horse for the job, you have to question what is going on. Just look at the big races recently – o’brien’s form has been pretty poor
I know oratorio won the irish champ stakes, and horatio and rumplestiltskin won on l’arc day, scorpion won the leger, etc but other than those four, from the start on september, he has been in pretty poor form
supposed big shots like dylan thomas, arabian prince, ivan denisovich, aussie rules, etc have either lost easily or been very unconvincing. Amigoni, Kamarinskaya, Briolette at windsor – the list goes on and on
btw, on another note, on channel 4 they had a little interview with him and i think he said that george washington would not race again this year – could someone confirm this please??
As for withdrawing Washington too late on, the same could be said for rakti – also, bookies do allow you to have 2 selections in the same race, if your preferred choice is a NR – I managed to do it in the dewhurst with hn and gw, so there isnt any big problem there
btw, on another note, on channel 4 they had a little interview with him and i think he said that george washington would not race again this year – could someone confirm this please??
That’s what he said.Basically he said he withdrew the horse because he didn’t want to bottom it out and sour it for next year by running on going he described as yielding.<br>Confusion might have been caused by a report on telextext that he would go for the Racing post Trophey next week
(Edited by Lingfield at 7:24 pm on Oct. 15, 2005)
Today’s results at Newmarket offer some poetic justice for those of us who are tired of the arrogance of the Coolmore team, who seem to act like horseracing is run purely for their benefit.
Just look at the big races recently – o’brien’s form has been pretty poor
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Yeah, i caught the bit about the yielding ground, but george has won on that ground before. I presumed Washington would run in the RP Trophy because it seemed like a sensible target. I didnt actually see that teletext report.
Btw, Aidan – am i getting sarcastic vibes from you or happy vibes???
Ok, Maybe i need to justify my opinion further.
September 1st to October 15th big winners<br>Scorpion St Leger<br>Rumplestiltskin on L’Arc day<br>Horatio Nelson Grand Criterium<br>Oratorio Irish Champ stakes
Now his big losers<br>Scorpion L’Arc<br>Horatio Nelson Dewhurst<br>Oratorio Champ Stakes<br>Briolette lost what should have been an easy listed event for him at windsor the other day<br>Ivan Denisovich Middle Park Stakes<br>Mullins Bay QE2<br>Virginia Waters Sun Chariot<br>Alexandrova Fillies Mile<br>Dylan Thomas & Arabian Prince in main race at Salisbury last week
There is a lot to suggest he is out of form – compare that to something like april/may with his classic wins, or august when he won all the huge races in ireland.
Ok, i think i need to learn about which members support which stables/jockeys!?!?!?
Don’t get me wrong, i’m a big fan of Ballydoyle’s 2yos, and i think they will absolutely dominate everything next year – they have george washington, rumplestiltskin, horatio nelson, pescatorio, chenchikova and alexandrova.
And there’s still more to come from Oratorio, scorpion, indigo cat (watch him in the prince of wales stakes – im sure he’ll win it), wolfe tone (likewise in the ascot gold cup) and mullins bay will progress a lot too.
And we cannot deny that Fallon looks absolutely reborn since joining AP. Last year, he wasnt himself – he had that huge race fixing scandal, and when dettori started catching him in the jockeys title, fallon was struggling to get a winner. This year, he has dominated. He wins for all stables – Stoute, Noseda, O’Brien, Fabre, etc
4 Group 1’s in a month is a bad run????
The only real disappointment in that list was Ivan D in the Middle Park, the rest either ran well or just were not good enough. But none of them can detract from a season let alone month that any trainer would die for.
<br>In truth I should not have laughed, should have explained apologies in that regard. By the way Indigo Cat has been sold as have alot of the stables lesser lights.
Most trainers wait a lifetime for a Gr 1 so to suggest that a stable having 4 in a few weeks is ‘out of form’ is risible.
They can’t all win Jackane and, as Aidan (our Aidan that is) points out most of those were simply not good enough.
btw – in addition to saying GW will not race again this year AOB also said he was the best 2-yo they had EVER HAD at Ballydoyle. You can still get 7/2 about him for next years Guineas. LUMP ON.
Yeah, i understand that many trainers never get a Group 1 – but O’Brien trains horses from 2 of the richest guys in racing, Tabor and Magnier – such is the importance of money in racing, they can buy the best from the best breeding lines.
From sept 1st, o’brien has had runners in the following UK and Irish Group 1 races
St Leger – Scorpion 1st<br>Irish Champ – Oratorio 1st<br>National Stakes – George Washington 1st<br>QE2 – Mullins Bay 6th/6<br>Middle Park – Ivan Denisovich unplaced<br>Sun Chariot – Virginia Waters last<br>Fillies Mile – Alexandrova 2nd<br>Champ Stakes – Oratorio 4th<br>Dewhurst – Horatio Nelson 2nd<br>Irish St Leger – Yeats unplaced
30% strike rate
That means in 6 Group 1s, which largely revolve around 2yos, which Ballydoyle is renowned for having brilliant ones, he has not had a winner in 6. Horatio Nelson, Alexandrova & Ivan Denisovich all losing, when it seemed as if these were all super horses.<br>Next week is the RP Trophy, and now O’Brien’s challenge on that race looks weak with the his 2 best 2yos out of the race, so that will probably be another Group 1 lost.
Compare that to the start of the season
Nothing was expected of O’Brien in the early stages, but he had a great start winning the first 2 classics and then having very consistent runs with a few great horses like Oratorio, Ace, Indigo Cat and Wolfe Tone. Virginia Waters never ran properly again because she never had the ground in her favour and was never going to stay in the Oaks.
But then, guys like Aussie Rules, Rumplestiltskin, Amigoni, Dylan Thomas, Arabian Prince, Marcus Andronikus, Ivan Denisovich etc all came along with a load of hype, and did not deliver with the exception of Rumplestiltskin, who was never convincing until running in the Marcel Boussac on L’Arc day.
Let’s not forget, that Ivan Denisovich was favourite for the 2000 Guineas in July – now where is he in the betting??? but agreed completely about Washington for the Guineas. 7/2 looks a steal.
And Ultimate Nightmare, in terms on horses training on, look at my post in the Washington vs Nelson thread posted today about 9.30pm – very interesting reading
Aussie Rules, Rumplestiltskin, Amigoni, Dylan Thomas, Arabian Prince, Marcus Andronikus, Ivan Denisovich etc all came along with a load of hype
Again out of that list ID is the only real disappointing one. Alexandrova ran an absolute belter beaten a nose over a mile….no favourite for the Oaks. Ivan D was disappointing but the rest are decent and thats all. They were never talked up to be anything else. They cannot all be stars.
In the Group 1’s for juveniles bar this year bar the Middle Park Ballydoyle has had a horse in the first two in each of them. <br>
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