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Does being the best horse over six furlongs or the best horse over seven furlongs or the best horse over a mile automatically allow one to claim to be "the best horse in the world"?The Guardian claims that Frankel is "the best horse in the world"( no distance specified).Is this a valid claim or just glory hunting?In his year Sea the Stars was "the best horse" over a mile and over a mile and 1/2 for that year. Yet I would be slow to claim he was "the best horse in the world" even that year.How does distance enter into the evaluation of a horse?Black Cavier remains unbeaten for three seasons over distances short of a mile, Frankel over a mile. Sirrus Des Aigles is right now the best over a mile and 1/2. There is little disputinhg that Australian sprinters are the best in the world and perhaps European milers are the best in the world. Both race on the turf.US horses race on dirt,another component of the equation. So can anyone’s claim to "the best horse in the world" be valid without some clarification?
The phrase probably means no more and no less than Frankel is the highest ranked/rated horse on the world thoroughbred ranking/ratings. And of course one of the purposes of ratings is that you hope to be able to classify across distances so comparison becomes valid.
Try convincing an Aussie Black Caviar is not the best in the world.
Unbeaten and the times she records are amazing…. not once or twice but every time she runs.
What swings Timeform towards Frankel apart from being English at heart is that Frankel it would appear has beaten better opposition.
That allows them to stab a guess with little argument and say Frankel is number 1 and Black Caviar is number 2.
The truth is she is a lot better at what she does than Frankel is at what he does and so she should be she’s been doing it a lot longer.
There is little doubt that she is great the jury is still out on Frankel who could quite easily not have trained on.
It will be interesting to see what happens if Black Caviar destroys the best Europe has to offer, because if she does Frankel is going to have to do something really special to retain his position.
I reckon by the end of this season whichever horse Timeform have up there with be pretty much undisputed even if the two don’t meet one will mess up, but right now it’s all guesswork.
Does it really matter who is the best? We should be pleased that we are witnessing two outstanding horses & celebrate them both.
Be really interesting to see Black Caviar race over here at Royal Ascot.Has he trained on? Did you SEE his gallop the other day?
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Does being the best horse over six furlongs or the best horse over seven furlongs or the best horse over a mile automatically allow one to claim to be "the best horse in the world"?The Guardian claims that Frankel is "the best horse in the world"( no distance specified).Is this a valid claim or just glory hunting?In his year Sea the Stars was "the best horse" over a mile and over a mile and 1/2 for that year. Yet I would be slow to claim he was "the best horse in the world" even that year.How does distance enter into the evaluation of a horse?Black Cavier remains unbeaten for three seasons over distances short of a mile, Frankel over a mile. Sirrus Des Aigles is right now the best over a mile and 1/2. There is little disputinhg that Australian sprinters are the best in the world and perhaps European milers are the best in the world. Both race on the turf.US horses race on dirt,another component of the equation. So can anyone’s claim to "the best horse in the world" be valid without some clarification?
While Frankel is indeed a very good horse, I think it’s just hype from certain quarters.
Horse racing has several different things which can alter the result, one of which is distance.
Another factor is going, you wouldn’t back a horse who likes top of the ground conditions in a mud bath for instance.
Another is the characteristics of the courses, not every horse will like certain courses, while others love them.
So I don’t think you can universally name a best horse in the world, you can acknowledge though that some are good or the best in certain conditions.
Has he trained on? Did you SEE his gallop the other day?
Did you see the gallop Hurricane Fly did just before the Champion Hurdle?
The signs are he has, but you should know that no one knows for sure until they do it on the track.
To be a true great, you have to do at the real championship distances; 10-12 furlongs. Racing at these distances is more competitive; the really prestigious races are at these distances. Frankel at the moment is a great miler, I hope he goes on to become a great horse.
Has he trained on? Did you SEE his gallop the other day?
Did you see the gallop Hurricane Fly did just before the Champion Hurdle?
The signs are he has, but you should know that no one knows for sure until they do it on the track.
But that wasnt HF not training on was it. We normally worry about 2 year olds going to 3 anyway don’t we? And what does not training on mean with a horse as great as Frankel? Even if he is only AS good as last year he still won’t get beat. Relax and enjoy the show boys.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
in my eyes sea the stars is the best horse i have ever seen in my lifetime and i’m 23 hope to see many more
I think we can all agree that by any standards Goldikova was a truly exceptional miler, 14 Group 1 victories, including 3 consecutive Breeders Cup Miles and over £4million in prize money.
It could be argued that she was perhaps not quite the force of old last season, but if that is the case it must be very marginal.
Examine her form in 2011. She won just the twice the d’Ispahan from none other than Cirrus Des Aigles, subsequent winner of the Champion Stakes, Sheema Classic and Prix Ganay. Her other win last season was in the Rothschild from Sahpresa subsequent winner of the Sun Chariot, that form was confirmed to within ounces when they were both placed in the Jacques le Marois.
Goldikova’s defeats last season show how great Frankel must be. Let’s deal with her final race 3rd beaten a length in the Breeders Cup mile, on the face of it below her best but she beat the top class very consistent Gio Ponti by almost the exact distance she had when winning the race in 2010, whice suggest that she was about the same mare in 2011 than in 2010.
Her defeats in Europe were 1L second to Canford Cliffs who was winning his 5th consecutive G1, 1L second to Immortal Verse who had previously won the Coronation Stakes. Her final defeat in Europe was a head 2nd to Dream Ahead who was also winning his fifth G1.
None of those 3 horses, winners of 11 G1 races beatween them could get within 5L of Frankel.
To get a true idea of how good he is just watch the replays of the Guineas, Sussex and QEII wins and watch that rhytmic ground devouring stride, the sheer power and class of this brilliant colt. I’ve watched racing for about 40 years and I’ve not seen anything that compares to him, at least not in Europe
Nice post Kris. I say the same for Black Caviar but I’ve only been watching Oz racing for 30 years. I’ve never seen a horse here (Oz) cover the ground like she does. It appears to be effortlessly but times would tell you that that’s impossible, she must be exerting some…
I’m really looking forward to seeing both her & Frankel at Ascot this year (on the TV only unfortunately). It’s always a great week but could be something really special this year.
I, too, hope that Frankel comes back at least as good as he left us. It’s a bigger ask now that he’s 4, he won’t get the weight allowance he had as a 3yo. I’m sure that he wouldn’t be running if he wasn’t going well.
Mind you I don’t think that Black caviar is going as well as she was this time last year but she’s still the best sprinter I’ve seen even at her current level.
I think the French horse is currently the best middle distance horse in the world. And in my mind not much doubt Black Caviar is still the best sprinter.
I know the Frankel-groupies wouldn’t hear of it but I think Frankel still has a tiny bit to prove to get the milers nod. You can’t use the guineas that was a 3yo restricted race, and there are obvious question marks over a couple of his good wins last season (pace, opposition being not at their best or injured). When the pace was on in the St James Palace he fell in but I’m not denouncing that effort it was still a great win although if excellerbration didn’t want to duck in 45 times and decided to run straight who knows..
How can you say who is the best out of those 3 anyway?
I personally think milers make the best sires – does that count?
I agree it’s great to have such great animals running around and not sure if all of you poms truly appreciate how lucky you are to have a meeting like Ascot where many trainers make the effort to travel over their best horses.
If I were there I’d be booking my penthouse and going to the races every day that week!
Ah Yes,best middle distance horse; best miler, best sprinter. How about best miler of his year STS, best middle distances of his year STS.Best horse of his year STS.Guineas, Derby and Ark.Best forgotten horse STS!Pity he was not trained by SHC.
I’m amazed how many times Sea the Stars has crept into this conversation. If ever a horse never deserved a mention in a thread this is it.
To be perfectly honest pound for pound Sea The Stars is one of the most ordinary multi-group winners I have ever seen. He was very good but he never annihilated horses like Sea Bird II or Mill Reef did.
All this he only did what he had to is complete and utter nonsense. He just never had that magical kick.
Don’t mean to upset anyone but it’s just that I think when you talk about the best in the world it should be a private members club reserved for horses who were/are legends of the turf like Phar Lap, Ribot Sea Bird II, Sea Buscuit, Secretariat…Both Black Caviar and Frankel are at the front door waiting to come in and that’s fantastic.
I hope they never clash and both do very special things this season and really grab the public’s attention.
I can’t remember a time like this when you have Sprinter Sacre taking the jumps world by storm, Black Caviar winning race after race with defeat looking totally out of the question and young Frankel on the brink of becoming the best since Sea Bird II himself.
This may well become the most memorable era since the 60’s when Arkle and Sea Bird II ruled the world……..I say enjoy it while you can.
Don’t mean to upset anyone but it’s just that I think when you talk about the best in the world it should be a private members club reserved for horses who were/are legends of the turf like Phar Lap, Ribot Sea Bird II, Sea Buscuit, Secretariat…
Both Black Caviar and Frankel are at the front door waiting to come in
and that’s fantastic.
On records alone Black Caviar is in. Frankel on the other hand has yet to prove he can do it as an older horse.
Has he trained on? Did you SEE his gallop the other day?
I did Joni. I watched the trio in the gallop going down to the start and coming back from right beside the rail at the four furlong marker. He looked incredible to me. Just sat calmly in behind his two pacemakers completely in control. The way he eats up the ground with his stride is quite remarkable at close quarters. I’m no equine expert of course, just a keen observer. Wrongly or rightly I expect to see him destroy the opposition in the Lockhinge if he runs in the race.
I think the ‘best horse in the world’ can only ever be a subjective thing, but for what it is worth I’ve never seen a better horse in the forty odd years I’ve been watching racing. At least not at a mile.
Here’s a close up peep of Frankel for you. Cruising at the four pole and waiting to gobble his two opponents up.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/ChristopherPHammond/lf.jpg
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