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The problem with rating the form of this year’s Derby on the subsequent performances of those who ran on it is that, well, it’s the Derby, and it invariably attracts the best of the middle distance 3yos. You should be disappointed if most of them can’t go on and win and place in more Group races, regardless of what happens in the race itself.
If I say the Derby wasn’t good form, I’m not saying that the horses are rubbish or that specifically Sir Percy is rubbish, I’m saying that the race told us very little about the relative merits of the horses who ran because of the way in which it was run.
I don’t want to blabber on about the pace profile of the race because enough has been said about that on here at this stage. The easiest way to illustrate the point is that a horse like Dragon Dancer is not in the same league as Dylan Thomas or Sir Percy, yet managed to split them in a photo.
Does Sir Percy stay a mile and a half properly, or does he need a slow pace in order to allow him to use his considerable kick? Sadly, it looks like we won’t find out until next year.
fight of it in the Guineas racing on much slower ground
Where are you getting this info and do you honestly believe he made a "fight of it" with George Washington in the Guineas? He was absolutely hammered.
(Edited by Aidan at 6:47 pm on Sep. 26, 2006)
The way i see it Horatio nelson was unlucky in the dewhurst after a very suspect ride, that was obvious to everyone who watched it. Straight after i thought that both horses looked destined for 1m2f, looking at their allround pace and turns of foot.
Sir percy ran well in guineas, he was up with the pace all the way and probably done his best work in the 7th furlong keeping his momentum going into the 8th furlong, he was no match for a great george washington that day but i, for one, thought that the guineas was a good one and sir percy ran a good race. Straight after which i said he wanted 1m2f, as he only lacked pace against george but it was a good performance.
The derby however, as ive said before i didnt rate one bit. It was a poor race and sir percy won it in the style of a good 1m2f horse in a poor 1m4f race. Straight after i thought he wants to be dropped back down to 1m2f.
I think that with sir percys speed and pace, i think he has all the attributes of a very good 1m2f horse, and wheras i dont rate his derby win, i definitely wont write him off, he has a better turn of foot than anything ive seen this season at a 1m2f and will certainly go any clip nthey set him.
I can understand how easy it is to slate him on the form of each race and his subsequent position as a well hyped derby winner (like all derby winners really), but on the merits of each run theres potential for a very good horse.
Sir Percy is indeed a very good horse, but "slower" ground did not beat him that day in the Guineas, a far superior miler did who only had to have him mind kept on the job to easily beat him by over a couple of lenghts.
Quote: from Aidan on 7:13 pm on Sep. 26, 2006[br]Sir Percy is indeed a very good horse, but "slower" ground did not beat him that day in the Guineas, a far superior miler did who only had to have him mind kept on the job to easily beat him by over a couple of lenghts.
<br>I don’t question Sir Percy’s stamina the fact that he ran so well in the Guineas I see as a credit to him. George Washington is a 130+ miler, for any middle distance horse to beat him over a mile would’ve been a Pegasus like performance.
Thats fine, he was simply beaten by a far superior miler…"slow ground" (who said it was slower?) had absolutely nothing to do with it.
Sorry Aidan, I am on record as saying that GW is a far, far better miler and a great horse. No complaints there.
Steve made a point regarding rating the also-rans in the Guineas which I felt was a little unfair. It seemed to suggest that it was a one horse race and the rest were much of a muchness.
Sir Percy would not have won the race, but had he been drawn against the rail, where the ground was a tad faster, he would have finished a length or so closer. We’ve discussed this before, back in May.
Slow ground in the 2000 guineas? I was there that day, the gound was lightning fast, that’s what stopped SP. I think someone is getting mixed up with the 1000 guineas next day, after it peed with rain over night. GW murdered them (and me) on that day, but there are still people out there who say he didn’t accelerate but I was standing at the 2 furlong pole and he bloody did!<br>
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysGeorge Washington came up the centre of the track with Sir Percy, he had gone around 3 lenghts clear when he veered to the right bringing him on to the far running rail. The ground made no difference whatsoever.
Vaguely remember talking about it but do not remember who reported the ground faster on the far rail? Where did you hear that?
I think it was on here. If you have a video of the race, it does seem to confirm that the far side was a shade faster.
It’s a while back now though.
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Anyone else concerned by a possible lack of pace on Sunday? Looking at the declarations, it isn’t easy to see who will make the running; let’s hope that a pacemaker or two is entered at the supplementary stage on Thursday.
Quote: from yquem21 on 10:41 pm on Sep. 26, 2006[br]Anyone else concerned by a possible lack of pace on Sunday? .
<br>Yes a bit.
For an Arc it looks like its going to be a relatively small field could be as few as nine or ten. Ace may go on but from looking at the field I wouldn’t be surprised to see a slower than usual Arc pace. If that happens Hurricane Run won’t run to the mark he ran to last year wll probably run between 126 and 128 which certainly leaves Shirocco and Deep Impact in being suited a bit more than Hurricane Run in my opinion.
The pace could be crucial to the result on Sunday. Shirocco will probably run prominantly and that may see him get frst run and take some pegging back.
(Edited by The Market Man at 10:49 pm on Sep. 26, 2006)
Hmm, this is something I had been concerned at. Whenever looking at AP betting for the Arc, I had noticed the small field, and wondered whether others would be entered.
Although tbh, we are being treated to such an amazing clash – Shirocco, Hurricane Run, Deep Impact, Rail Link.
People were concerned by the small field in the King George, but look what it treated us too.
- Total Posts 438
Quote: from jackane24 on 11:07 pm on Sep. 26, 2006[br]People were concerned by the small field in the King George, but look what it treated us too.
<br>But Cherry Mix was deployed as a pacemaker at Ascot, one good enough to lead the field into the final two furlongs. If we don’t have a horse of similar ability pacesetting on Sunday, the race may become less of a spectacle than has widely been anticipated; Deep Impact, for one, may be inconvenienced by the lack of pace.
Quote: from davidjohnson on 8:43 pm on Sep. 15, 2006[br]BTW Zorro, enjoyed your piece in the Weekender, questioning your colleague’s rating of Deep Impact. I wish more people would realise that ratings, be it RPR’s, Sportsman, Timeform or BHB one’s are merely opinion and not fact.<br>
Just seen this, can somebody tell Jackane this please
<br>I have him 130+ Zorro, don’t have any Japan standard times i’m afraid, so had to use collateral form – highly unreleable process imo though :biggrin:
Why don’t yer compile yer own ratings Zorro, you seem to be able sort the wheat from the chaff and it would make an interesting addition to your column
(Edited by empty wallet at 1:54 am on Sep. 27, 2006)
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