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Right, they’ve started already…
1) Shirocco, to stand at stud, fee of 10k set.
Personally, that is ridiculously cheap. You can be sure Ballydoyle would charge at least 25k for a very similar horse.
Im not at all sure how these fees are worked out but i would imagine that there is a fair amount of logic and calculation behind it and would suspect that because of that, it would be little different at ballydoyle
A boring response i know :)
J,
are you suggesting that its a bad thing to try to break the dominant market position of one supplier, through undercutting that supplier’s pricing ?
or are you congratulating Godolphin for making a quality sire available at an affordable price?
best regards
wit ÂÂÂ
A bizarre acquisition. They already have one German stallion in Lomitas and yet they want to buy another stoutly-bred individual of German upbringing!!
10,000 seems a lot of money for something that will be saddling bumper winners in years to come :biggrin:
Quote: from clivex on 12:45 pm on Oct. 27, 2006[br]Im not at all sure how these fees are worked out but i would imagine that there is a fair amount of logic and calculation behind it and would suspect that because of that, it would be little different at ballydoyle
<br>Can you explain why Coolmore reign supreme and the other crowd don’t really matter when it comes to breeding.
A boring response i know :) <br>
whats that got to do with Shirocco’s stallion fee Luke?
The assertion was that £10k was cheap whereas some have countered that it may be even a little high (given lack of obvious speed in pedigree)
Im just curious as to how these things are calculated
Lomitas didn’t have any success outside of Germany. German racing is very weak usually, and Lomitas’ progeny have been successful in Germany and also America, another weak turf division.
Of the 22 Blacktype shown in the Darley 06 catalogue, Championship Point is the only horse with British success (the Chesham Stakes).
And Lomitas stands for 10k at Darley.
Shirocco – didn’t only conquer the German field, but also
1) 4th in the Arc – beaten by World Champion, one of the finest stayers in recent memory, and a previous Arc winner<br>2) 1st in BC Turf<br>3) Jockey Club Stakes winner<br>4) Coronation Cup winner<br>5) Prix Foy winner
So he conquered also the American market (in a STRONG BC Turf, beating decent European runners), Britain twice, France, and put in a very strong performance in the Arc, despite having switched stables just weeks earlier.
All I’m saying is, that based on the achievements and fee of both Lomitas and Shirocco, the latter seems like bargain of the century.
Maybe Jack, but as has been pointed out, the stout breeding possibly outweighs the achievements….
Shirocco and Lomitas were both of very similar ability on the Flat. Just a quick glance at their best RPR’s shows that. So not really sure what your point is.
A comment like ‘German Racing is very weak usually’ is the sort of off the cuff poorly researched comment that I expect from you.
Clivex -I have half an idea how the game works.As I understand it Coolmore set their fees fairly high at first.They would probably pitch Shiroco at somewhere between 20-30k.Thats the downside but Coolmore are famous for supporting their customers at the sales,foal sharing agreements etc.<br>Being good to their customers while quietly screwing them seems to do the job.As I understand it the whole Darley organization are a lot less flexible in their approach.Thats tge difference.
ok fair enough and ta Luke
But "screwing customers" is a great short term strategy…regardless of the fringe benefits :)
I don’t think it is a ‘poorly researched comment’.
Iota – unbeaten filly in Germany last year came to the Yorkshire Oaks and flopped.
Going into last year’s Arc, Shirocco was 25/1.
Look at the form of last year’s German Derby winner, Nicaron.
Came last of 9 in the Grosser Preis von Baden, behind Warrsan, Cherry Mix, Westerner, Samando, etc
Was also beaten this year by Shamdala, Hattan, Vol de Nuit, etc
Not exactly fantastic form.
If this year’s German Derby winner, Schiaparelli, ran in the BC Turf, what price do you think he’d be?
Royal Power won the German Guineas this year. Subsequently…
7th St James’ Palace<br>9th Prix Jean-Prat<br>5th Hungerford<br>12th Challenge Stakes
Fantastic stuff.
(Edited by jackane24 at 5:08 pm on Oct. 27, 2006)
Samum, a middle-distance horse that won the German Derby and Grosser Preis von Baden, never won another race in 9 attempts. By Monsun, out of Sacarina (Our Vic).
Beaten by 8L in the 2000 Arc, and 7L in the 2002 Arc, failed to win Group 2s at odds of 2/5F and 1/2F.
Stands at stud for……10,000 euros, roughly 7k. And he won less than HALF the amount Shirocco has.
Where does Samum stand though? In Germany i wouldn’t be surprised where that fee could easily be commanded as he will be popular with local breeders.
Hard to believe commercial breeders over here are going to be flocking to Shirocco imo.
I guess that the year Boreal sluiced up in the Coronation Cup and Proudwings won the Falmouth must have been freak years.
Not forgetting Paolini who, using the ‘how much prize money have you won?’ argument, should be able to stand for about 50k
(Edited by Smithy at 5:40 pm on Oct. 27, 2006)
Darley are no longer standing Lomitas – he was on a lease agreement and will be returning to Germany.
Shirocco will, in effect, be filling his shoes.
As I have said before, Darley have a deliberate tactic of setting the prices for their British-based stallions low.  This is to counteract the tax benefits available to Irish stallion owners by encouraging breeders to use British stallions. ÂÂÂ
Having said that, I don’t think Shirocco would have stood much higher in Ireland.  His breeding appeals mainly to continental studs, and I think he would have more success in Germany.  But it is good to see alternative bloodlines available over here – I hope sensible breeders use him wisely.
German bloodstock has improved out of all recognition over the last few years and has much in its favour.  Their studs are well regulated and their unique bloodlines have had (despite Jack’s scorn) success outside of Germany.
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