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beggars belief that she should get a state funeral, to put her in the same league as nelson and churchill is quite breathtaking, wonder if tone will want one too
she is an icon and won a war, tone is a money grabbing liberal hippy with dubious integrity who started a war, imo
am actually going to write to my mp and state that I do not want my taxes to fund this ‘project’..when she left politics she was involved in a money making scheme to sell cigarettes to third world countries; that sums it all up as far as I’m concerned…… a friend of mine pointed out when I mentioned this to him that one of the most popular songs played at Australian funerals is ‘Ding Dong the Witch is Dead’. [must point out that, left of centre I may be politically, but I would also object to Tony Blair having a state funeral also].
Best thing to do is put her on a pyre then set fire to her.
Bring down all the miners,steel workers and ex docker and see how many would piss on her.
I expect the champagne in areas like Sheffield,Newcastle,Manchester and various parts Wales will start to pop open the moment her last breath has passed.
The only (peacetime) PM worthy of a state funeral would have been Clement Attlee who’s administration created the NHS…nuff said
As for Thatcher I can only assume the idea has at its roots a covert sexism viz the first woman PM, much like the bizarre awarding of a hereditary Baronetcy to husband Denis. ‘Sir’ Mark Thatcher, gawd help us.
An altogether more tasteful idea is the state funeral mooted for the last of the three remaining WW1 veterans to shuffle off: Henry Allingham, Harry Patch or William Stone…lest we forget
You people really shouldn’t be getting my hopes up after a weekend away from the Interweb by entitling a thread, "Thatcher Funeral"…
If "The People’s Pinochet" – as Jeremy Hardy fabulously described her at the Latitude Festival on Saturday – were accorded a state funeral, I have the sneaky feeling that you couldn’t begin to muster up a big enough police presence to repel the thousands of protestors (mostly wrought from the members of society Neil Watson listed) who’ll want to make their presence felt, interrupt the procession, whatever. Could be an interesting afternoon!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
She is the best peace time Prime Minister this country has ever had – she certainly knew what principle is – something the likes of Bliar , Brown , Cameron et al would not recognise if it slapped them in the face.
She excised the cancer of union "power" which was dragging this country into the pits – remember in the months before she came to power rubbish was piling up on the streets and you could not bury the dead – unfortunately with Stalin Brown the cancer seems to be coming back.
She also made sure that the influence of Europe was greatly reduced – unlike the current Government who are giving everything away without any consultation. Mrs T wouldn’t even have signed the Lisbon Treaty yet alone let it through without any consultation.
The novel ¨Rumours Of A Hurricane¨ by Tim Lott is a superb account of the Thatcher years and its varying effects on peoples lives as told through the story of an ordinary middle aged couple living in London in the 1980’s.
A fantastic read, highly recommended.
quote…’Robert finds a job in one of the few growth industries of the era; he becomes a riot policeman’….just about sums it all up really!
expect the champagne in areas like Sheffield,Newcastle,Manchester and various parts Wales will start to pop open the moment her last breath has passed.
And wonder why they can afford champagne now?
Some on the stuff on this thread is childish frankly
I didnt agree with a lot of her views, but Paul is right. In terms of social change and tackling the dismal condition britain was in at that time with a conviction and barvery, she stands head and shoulders above any other peacetime politician
It beggers belief that anyone could think that the country was in a better condition before her arrival than after. Incredible thinking….
We were the "sickman of europe". We had the "british disease". We had power cuts and endless strikes. We had a defetist attitude and zero vision of a better future
A recent Goldman Sachs piece suggested that Britain is now well placed to become the worlds highest major GDP by 2020. above USA and all western europe
Who would have predicted that in 1979?
Fair enough, clivex, and I confess I have a certain sympathy with the line which suggests that union power had to be confronted. She also did a good thing when allowing people to purchase their council houses
However, let’s not forget that she also sold the assets of the state in a series of knock-down boot-sales, removed the index-link for pensions, determinedly perpetuated an unworkable status-quo in Northern Ireland, hiked the VAT rate (amongst other stealth taxation measures), had a devil-may-care attitude to the unemployment figures, single-handedly helping dismantle centuries-old communities, removed means-testing of local taxation and stopped kids getting free school milk because it cost too much.
Now, for me, anyone looking at Thatcher dispassionately (hard to do on both sides of the equation), would surely admit that – at best – it is a score draw between the good and the bad. At best.
What it isn’t, is a convincing whitewash for ‘Good Thatcher’, which is what should be required for a State Funeral to be proposed.
She polarised opinion far too much, and she was despised by far too large a proportion of the country’s populace, for such an ‘honour’ (personally I think it’s an anachronistic load of old cobblers) to be bestowed upon her.
Some fair points Grasshopper and I fully agree she is either someone people either love or hate.
Picking up on some of the "negatives" you mentioned some of us would argue "the State" had no rights to to hold the assets that were privatised in the first place. Also in many cases were the assets not taken from those who originally held them at a poor price anyway – so it could be argued it all balances out.
Regarding stealth taxes and a "devil-may-care" attitude to unemployment figures (or indeed any statistics) – you must agree that charge can be levied against any Government of any persuasion?
As for dismantling of communities that began long before Mrs T came to power. It began post war and got worse in the mid-60’s and no government of either persuasion did anything to prevent it happening.
On a pedantic point the abolition of free school milk happened during the Heath Government, although she was Education Minister at the time.
I’m not saying she got everything right – but what politician does?
Like her or loath her you knew where you stood with her – she was a rare breed of being a conviction politician. She didn’t set policy by using focus groups or by seeing which way the wind blew.
I have the upmost respect for any politician who is principled – even if their views are different than mine. A prime example being Tony Benn – politically many of his views cannot be more different than mine – however I have the greatest respect and admiration for him as he has always stood up for what he believed in and you knew what he believed in. He would not be told how to vote in the chamber.
Anyway I digress – going back to the original theme of this thread. My understanding is the official reason she is being considered for a State funeral for being the first woman Prime Minister and for winning the Falklands War.
Despite my admiration for her as a PM and as a person I confess do have some doubts about giving her a State Funeral as it would clearly be divisive.
As a general principle I think a State Funeral should be reserved for a head of state only. Although I must also admit the proposal to give a State Funeral to the last WW1 veteran would have a symbolic poignancy and would give the nation a focus to remember those who died an a very horriffic war and to give a final "thank you" to those who died.
As a general principle I think a State Funeral should be reserved for a head of state only. Although I must also admit the proposal to give a State Funeral to the last WW1 veteran would have a symbolic poignancy and would give the nation a focus to remember those who died an a very horriffic war and to give a final "thank you" to those who died.
An excellent idea.
So obviously it won’t happen.
Paul, I fail to see how the State had no right to own the assets, when they were all paid for by means of taxation.
Regardless, there’s no point in getting into the minutaie of policy debate because it will be skewed as per the above, by what side you view it from.
Where I would agree with you, is that you certainly knew what you were getting when it came to the grocer’s daughter. Mind you, the same thing could be said of Keith Harris, and I don’t see anyone proposing a State Funeral for him (unless he’s doing it himself and I’ve not noticed because I can’t see his lips moving).
My main point was that a State Funeral – if we must have them – should surely be accorded to someone who was inordinately less divisive, and with more on their CV, than the likes of Mrs Thatcher.
Drone – as ever – slices through the noise, and his suggestion perfectly encapsulates the type of person that would be more deserving of a State Funeral, imo.
For all her failings and successes, I am grateful to Thatcher for one thing – she prevented Neil Kinnock from being PM.
Mike
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