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Closer inspection of Teofilo’s form suggests to me that he is very vulnerable, Eagle Mountain should have beaten him at the Curragh, Teofilo got first run, and Eagle Mountain was subsequently beaten out of sight in the Racing Post Trophy. Holy Roman Emperor (retired) almost certainly would have beaten him in the Dewhurst if he hadnt had such a nightmare passage which he used up most of his speed and energy to actually get to Teofilo and probably head him slightly, faster ground The EMPEROR would have won hands down. Personally I think Teofilo is vunerable to a real improver or maybe another Aidan O Brien dark horse, to me he is far from a certainty, we have seen umpteen times down the years top rated 2 yr olds turning out to be crap 3 yr olds or not as good as they promised to be. Maybe I might be wrong but I think Teofilo might be another. And I am quiet prepared to eat humble pie.
Teofilio’s past the post, at least I hope so, as I’ve had a £2,000 / £125 each-way with Bet365 who’ve since cut my stakes to pennies and it’ll serve the Stokie b*****d
s right!I think there’s been a lot of overhype about the horse to be honest. If you look at his bare form and the nature of his performances they don’t match up to the hype. Teofilo was a high class two year old but was workmanlike rather than scintilating and he’s probably rated a few pounds higher than he should be. He and Holy Roman Emperor were actually raised for their Dewhurst performances but I took the view through other horses that their rating should’ve been left unchanged.
I think Teofilo being rated top juvenile was justfied just, but there isn’t much between him and Dutch Art on level of form according to my ratings.
Teofilo is a big horse that may well improve but he is a gallopper and a mile looks like being plenty short enough for him. He goes to the Guineas with a very strong chance but there is also a chance he could get for a turn of foot. I think he deserves to be favourite but 5/4 – 11/8 is far too short in my opinion.
Mounty, dont take it out on me if the horse gets beat, I for cant stand those hypocrite bookmakers who are quiet happy to take your money if your a regular loser, but dare you actually win they have the right to refuse your money. Something has to be done about this. For instance they probably have very few winning accounts and many many thousands of losing accounts that would offset a 100 times over the small profit the few winning accounts turn over. They want it buttered both sides and jam on both sides aswell.
I wouldn’t fancy backing the horse at current odds, but it’s hardly as though the hype behind him doesn’t have substance. He’s an unbeaten Dewhurst winner after all, that win gained in a time quicker than the 5yo Sleeping Indian won the Challenge Stakes in. I don’t accept that either Eage Mountain or Holy Roman Emperor were unlucky against Teofilo, for me, the fact that he idles in front allowed them to get close to him in the Fururity and the Dewhurst.
Flash is almost certainly correct when he states on form there isn’t a huge amount between Teofilo and Dutch Art on form, however that only tells us how good they’ve shown themselves to be thus far, not what they are likely to prove capable of in the future. On pedigree Dutch Art looks a doubtful stayer whilst Teofilo should be at least as effective at 1m.
Hard to know what O’Briens Guineas plans are, but if Admiral of the Fleet was the most forward of them, I don;t think Bolger will be too worried seeing what Teofilo’s lead horse did in the Irish trial.
For what it’s worth, I think Teofilo will win the Guineas, probably in a similar style to the Dewhurst though with a little more in hand. Beyond that, I’m really not sure he’s a 12f horse.
DJ Dutch Art has a sprinter as a dam but he has 10f stamina on both sides of his pedigree through Medicean and Spectrum so on breading at least a mile looks to be within his compass.
I doubt either of O’Briens horses were anywhere near fit at Leopardstown yesterday but even so neither appears to be good enough. The winner will probably be a group three horse, the placed horses didn’t really have any worthwhile form to go on.
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(Edited by Flash at 9:28 pm on April 8, 2007)
I agree Flash he deserves to be Fav, but as I have said Flash I have seen umpteen good 2 yr olds falling by the wayside, I dont know if you remember the Vincent O Brien trained Danzatore looked for all the world a superstar never materialised, not to mention Gorytus, Storm Bird, Arazi, Xaar and there is so much more. <br>I agree also flash he looks more of a staying type and might be vulnerable on fast ground to a speedier horse.
Dutch Art’s dam Palacegate Episode couldn’t be called a sprinter, she only ran 3 times. In fact what she showed, she couldn’t be called a racehorse! Halland Park Lass’ siblings have all proved best short of 1m King Quantas (by Danehill) in Sweden, Foreign Edition (by Anabaa), stays 7f, Gilded Edge (by Cadeaux Genereux), 6f winner at 2 yrs. Dutch Art’s granddam Palacegate Episode was definitely best at sprint trips whilst all of her siblings, notably multiple winner Palacegate Jack were all best short of 1m.
The fact he looked all speed and was campaigned a sprinter at 2 suggests to me that will be his trip. If you think the doses of Medicean and Spectrum are enough to suggest he’ll stay 1m, coupled with the way he ran at 2 yrs, then I wish you well and will see you on betfair in the first week of May;)
Quote: from davidjohnson on 9:50 pm on April 8, 2007[br]Dutch Art’s dam Palacegate Episode couldn’t be called a sprinter, she only ran 3 times. In fact what she showed, she couldn’t be called a racehorse! Halland Park Lass’ siblings have all proved best short of 1m King Quantas (by Danehill) in Sweden, Foreign Edition (by Anabaa), stays 7f, Gilded Edge (by Cadeaux Genereux), 6f winner at 2 yrs. Dutch Art’s granddam Palacegate Episode was definitely best at sprint trips whilst all of her siblings, notably multiple winner Palacegate Jack were all best short of 1m.
The fact he looked all speed and was campaigned a sprinter at 2 suggests to me that will be his trip. If you think the doses of Medicean and Spectrum are enough to suggest he’ll stay 1m, coupled with the way he ran at 2 yrs, then I wish you well and will see you on betfair in the first week of May;)
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<br>Dutch Art didn’t look a sprinter to me last season. Peter Chapple-Hyam has stated that he ran up with the pace last season so he didn’t get done for speed. Dutch Art is already working over seven furlongs and a mile and his trainer has absolutely no doubts that he will get the trip.
Medicean is Dutch Art’s sire and Spectrum his damssire so the 10f stamina is very prominant in his pedigree.
I’ve backed Dutch Art to win the Guineas but I won’t be having a further bet on the race so you won’t find me on Betfair mate. <br>
(Edited by Flash at 11:15 pm on April 8, 2007)
"Teofilo not long now"
Suggests you have a financial interest on Teofilo, did we make you just a little nervous Dave, becase we dont subscribe to this horse being some sort of supertar.<br>"prepare the humble pie if you like Dave, i dont think I will be eating it".
Madman
I’m not here suggesting he is some sort of supertar (sic). Merely suggesting if he does get beat, it will be by something that hasn’t run his race and begining to fade by the Dip.
I’m not going to get in a personal battle with DJ I rate him as one of the most knowledgable members on this site and I have a lot of time and respect for his opinions, he never posts nonsense so anyone looking for an online fight, forget it lol.
Although i think a mile may be ok for Dutch Art, i wouldn’t want to be backing him at current odds over a stiff mile FTO in the Guineas against the Dewhurst winner tbh
Seems to me people would be out to get Teofilo whatever he has or had done. He is an unbeaten 2yo that ran and won on the top 2yo races. I don’t really know what more you could want from him. I backed him antepost and would probably be taking him on at the prices now, but I wouldn’t think he looked vulnerable as his form looks solid and he has always pulled out more when he has looked like being reeled in. It surely wasn’t just me that saw Holy Roman Emperor head Teofilo before Teofilo came back at HRE and put its head back in front. It takes a good horse to do that imo.
i think teofilio is something special but yeah the price is ridiculous i would want a little bigger but if the craven and the other trials turn out to be no good it might turn out to be a good price.<br>however p c hyam wont hear of dutch art getting beat and that man is certainly no mug!
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