Stiffness of Fences

[Cork All Star]

I know what you mean Ginger. It is a sign if the times. But a large part of the reason why we admired National horses was because the race was a challenge and a jumping test. It isn’t now.

A horse had to be put down at Navan today after an awful fall. And a horse was killed at Sedgefield on Thursday after one of the worst falls I have seen for a long time. Both were over conventional fences.

If deaths are not acceptable in the National, why should they be acceptable anywhere? I recognise your point about public perception and the profile of the National but the risk of injury and death is ever present in jumps racing. Unless we water it down to the extent it no longer resembles jump racing. And even then it would not be completely safe, as injuries on the Flat show.

Where does it end? The abolition of racing? I genuinely do think that is a possibility now unless racing is prepared to defend itself.

[Crepello1957]

I think that they should have finished it completely. It is no longer much of a test and they will continue to tinker with it till there is nothing left. As Cork All Stars pointed out there have been several fatalities in the last week but it is only those in the know you are aware it. A high profile death at Aintree will fuel fire and the race will completely go.

[Gingertipster]

Of course we can’t get rid of all risk but it’s all about the amount of risk, CAS.
As I understand it, since the most recent Grand National changes the percentage of fatalities to runners is lower than it was before.

One fatality doesn’t mean a great deal as far as whether it’s “safe” to be racing at Naas or Sedgefield. What matters is how courses measure up on the percentage of fatalities to runners… And – in the same way – you can rightly expect changes to be made to specific fences if they are more dangerous too.

Good jumpers still have an advantage in the Grand National, they just don’t have as big an advantage as they used to. A horse that makes a mistake and does not fall still loses energy and therefore is less likely to be involved in the finish… And horses have made mistakes in 80’s Grand Nationals and still won. Rhyme And Reason and Maori Venture.

Value Is Everything

[gamble]

It was rumoured Rhyme n Reason had springs.

[yeats]

Thank God (although I’m an atheist) these upturned dandy brushes weren’t in evidence when Rhyme N’Reason triumphed. We would have been deprived of one of the most dramatic races in it’s history. In my opinion the greatest ride given to a horse in the race and a most courageous horse.
Instead of the horse nearly coming down at Bechers first time and giving the outside to no one second time he would have just lobbed around the inside these days (boring)
Used to be my favourite race of the year by a mile but have little interest these these days. Instead of making the fences too easy they should have found a happy medium, mediocre jumpers can win it now. Mickey Mouse fences.

[Gingertipster]

Instead of making the fences too easy they should have found a happy medium, mediocre jumpers can win it now. Mickey Mouse fences.

I expect they would argue they have found a “happy medium”, Yeats. There are still fallers in the Grand National… And even when not falling, mistakes mean horses have less energy in the finish than they would have had.

Rhyme And Reason made a horrendous error and yet won the race. Maori Venture was a poor jumper and yet won the race. So two mediocre jumpers won the race in the 80’s.

…And since the 2012 changes: Minella Times, Tiger Roll (twice), One For Arthur, Many Clouds, Auroras Encore, Neptune Collonges all put in good rounds of jumping. Only Pineau De Re and Rule The World could imo be described as “mediocre”.

Two mediocre jumping winners in the 80’s, two since the latest changes.

Value Is Everything

[LD73]

I present Landsman in the 1:55 at Taunton today who literally took off a stride early, which saw him coming down and through the fence only halfway up it – not only did he not fall (he actually never looked likely to fall) but he never actual lost any momentum and was still as far clear after the fence as he was before attempting to jump it.

[Gingertipster]

Why do you want horses to fall, LD?
Landsman was the only horse in the race to be pulled up, weakening badly 3 out and PU 2 out. So he may not have “lost any momentum” at the fence but in all probability did lose energy. ie Horse made a bad mistake and paid the price (didn’t win or place). In fact didn’t come anywhere near winning.

So what is the problem?

Value Is Everything

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