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So you guys didn’t have to make the decision as to which ‘horse’ to ride to the corner shop to get your sweets [or, in my case, my mums woodbines?]. Giddy’up…[Mill House always beat Arkle in my dreams as well!]
I hate them as they are neither one thing nor the other.
One of the things I like about British racing is the non-mixed cards.
Quite. As has been suggested several time on the previous "mixed cards – for or against?" threads, however much the more holistically-minded racing fans on TRF might argue to the contrary, mixed cards simply don’t offer the devotees of one code in preference to the other enough of the racing they want to see to justify parting with the leisure pound to attend.
Moreover, whenabouts in the year is it being suggested that these extra mixed meetings should appear? Between May 1st and September 30th, the only two dual purpose courses in the country that actively use both their Flat and jumps tracks are Ffos Las and Southwell. The days of Catterick, Chepstow and Newcastle (plus Nottingham, when it was still a DP) overlapping their two seasons such that jumps fixtures continue well into the spring seem to have been consigned to history now, most likely on course husbandry grounds.
It’s hard to imagine an about-face by any of these courses just for the sake of putting on three or four jumps races once a fortnight well into the warmer months. Equally, the Flat seasons at Catterick and Newcastle in particular already start early enough now that there’s scant scope for them to start any earlier through mixing – Newcastle on March 30th is the only jumps fixture at either course between Doncaster’s Flat turf opener and the April 7th / 10th Flat opener at Catterick and Newcastle respectively.
Finally, for as long as the edict limiting Flat jockeys to participation in nine meetings per week remains in place, how many of the top jocks do you imagine will accept just three or four rides at a mixed meeting over a full complement of six or seven at a Flat-only fixture?
Opportunities for lesser or emerging Flat riders may abound as a result, and that’s fine if this is one of the intended outcomes of an expanded mixed program. As a means to enabling racegoers to see the very best riders of both codes in action on the same card, however, it’s just a tiny bit flawed.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Big fan of mixed cards.
Hopefully this isn’t a digression – if it is, ignore me – but what happened to the racing-to-music idea.
I thought it was really clever and worth a look. Did it get shelved?
GC , as much as I respect your well researched and argued post , indeed admire it for sheer accuracy …its plainly wrong , we need to think outside the box, we need to remove obstacles(sic) , and we need to be positive about attracting new racegoers , present devotees will just have to be grumpy for a bit , until the penny drops that its actually good for the game
10 yrs from now the present racegoers will have retired from going , we need to replace that hefty chunk with a new audience ….this idea is for them
cheers
Ricky
i often thought for the national before the starting tape, they could paint a white line on the grass, quite a distance from the starting tape, they could all line up at that then walk or trot up, and then the tapes go up
vf
Big fan of mixed cards.
Hopefully this isn’t a digression – if it is, ignore me – but what happened to the racing-to-music idea.
I thought it was really clever and worth a look. Did it get shelved?
I think the ‘racing to music’ idea got laughed into submission by the all-weather naysayers who just saw it as a gimmick.
If you quite like it as an idea, there’s always the option to take an iPod or something like that to the races with you. I tried that for a couple of races last time at Haydock & once at Wolverhampton & it was quite fun.
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I’m really happ to have read some of you posts….I thought I was mentally challenged but you lot make me feel sane
I had little little metal ingots laid out on a green sheet on the foor of the garden shed . It was my exact replica of the Grand National course (like not) and the plan was to move horse so many lengths everytime they ran a good race, won a race or I read something good about them in the Sporting Chronicle or that little green racing paper..the weekender I think it was called.
I was sure I could solve the Grand national puzzle by doing this and find the winner
What happened is Highland Wedding kept friggin winning and was so far ahead of the field he was finsihed before one or two of my fancies had gained a length……Annoyed, I scrapped the thing a week or so before the race and picked some monkey who’s probably still running and of course Highland Wedding hacked up.I was thinking of doing the same thing again this year but my girfriend says if I paint the bedroom floor green she’s moving to China
I have to say I agree with Ricky on this one.
Sure there are some of us who have strong preferences for particular codes, however I don’t seen any problem in trying something different to attract new racegoers
I don’t think anybody is proposing the wholesale introduction of mixed meetings every day of the week.
However I would see nothing wrong with staging say, one or two mixed meetings a month, either on a Sunday or a Bank Holiday (or possibly a "quiet" Saturday), with the meetings staged with as wide a geographic spread as possible . Staged with the specific intent of attracting new racegoers.
They could be marketed strongly, there should be plenty of information explaining what is going on. Have the day at the course hosted by dare I say Tommo who, like him or not, can engage with the public who can explain what is going on. Basically apply a full scale marketing blitz.
By having a mixture of racing (and indeed use Kempton, Lingfield or Southwell in the winter to have AW races as well) it will give the newcomers a taster of what the sport has to offer and they can then decide if they “prefer” jump, turf flat or AW or any combination thereof.
For those who don’t want to attend a mixed meeting then fine, there would be plenty of other meetings available to attend.
As for the restrictions on the number of meetings for flat jockeys raised by JC, that would not be insurmountable – I’m sure the BHA could easily make an exemption for mixed meetings. If necessary pay the top riders appearance money to turn up.
Sure there are some of us who have strong preferences for particular codes, however I don’t seen any problem in trying something different to attract new racegoers.
Where is the evidence that a mixed-card would be any more attractive to a novice race-goer, than an all Jumps or all Flat card?
Racing’s real problems, in terms of attracting a new audience, are essentially two-fold:
1. There is a perception amongst the general public that the game is moody, fixed or bent.
2. The mechanics of form-reading are shrouded in mystery, and the learning-period is too long for all but the most enthusiastic rookie.
New racegoers cannot be conjured-up out of fresh-air, on the back of well-meaning, but ultimately pointless initiatives. Racing will be sustained in the future, the same way it has in the past – small numbers of people finding it all by themselves, because they enjoy the visual spectacle and/or the intellectual challenge associated with separating the winners from the losers.
If racing wants to draw from a wider social pool and seriously increase it’s audience, then it has to seriously address Point 1 above…..and the evidence suggests that there isn’t really the finance or the stomach to do it.
Thanks to Ricky and Paul for the measured responses, much obliged. Be assured my post was as much a SWOT analysis rather than an outright pouring of cold water on the idea, for all that is admittedly a bit heavier on the Ws and Ts than the Ss and Os.
What, however, convinces you both that the actuality of mixed racing in particular is going to appeal to a potential new audience? Price of entry / food / parking, quality of facilities, money-offs and discounts, a non-threatening (i.e. not beered up) atmosphere, etc. still strike me as stronger determiners of how they’re going to flood through the turnstiles, or not, both now and years hence.
I’m reluctant to go too far down the "bread and circuses" route here, but I wonder if, below a certain level of enthusiasm / knowledge of racing / professional discernment (delete where applicable), it will always remain secondary what variety of fare is laid on race-wise if the racecourse experience as a whole is too unpleasant or pricey for Ben and Benetta, 2010 or 2020 model, to want to persevere with.
Certainly the numerous old classmates of mine who go to Chester or Haydock no more than twice a year (and twist my arms for tips beforehand) absolutely couldn’t give a monkeys as to the make and shape of the racing laid on, just so long as they can socialise safely and comfortably, have a nice meal, and maybe find a winner or two.
Note also the monster crowds that repeat-attend all Bank Holiday point-to-points on the guarantee (as far as anything can ever be guaranteed) of getting a nice, safe day out; this despite, particularly come May time, gradually shrinking field sizes and fewer quality horses participating in a programme of mostly unrelieved 3m chases.
For as long as that remains the case, I can’t see how the main driver for having any mixed cards can be anything other than the practicalities to the courses of hosting them that I listed previously.
There has to be a reason why Haydock’s attempts at increasing its mixed portfolio (with a three-chase, three-Flat card in March / April) in the late 90s were not sustained; why Chepstow didn’t seek to find alternative jumps races to maintain its then May Bank Holiday fixture as a mixed one after the two hunter chase finals on it moved elsewhere; and why the erstwhile Newbury three-day October meeting first removed the mixed element of one day and ultimately eliminated the jumps element thereof completely.
Was that reason a lack of interest from racegoers? Financial non-viability? Unimaginative promotion or short-termism on the part of the courses involved? Or issues of course husbandry? Or some or all of these?
I think sometimes we lose sight of the value of Racing The Day Out over the composition of Racing The Product to the lay attendee. Priorities, folks…
gc
PS I’m happy to be advised otherwise, but the BHA’s meeting limit edict for Flat jockeys, as far as I can remember, was imposed primarily on jockey welfare grounds – maybe someone can confirm. Taking in a tenth or eleventh meeting in a week would still necessitate a tenth or eleventh journey across the country in a week (exactly what I thought the edict was trying to prevent), and no amount of appearance money would detract from that detail.
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Excellent post, Grass, and not surprisingly I totally agree with you.
This business of trying to attract newcomers, not just in racing, with no regard to the people who are already involved is getting to be increasingly annoying.
Colin
My reason for saying a mixed meeting may be more appealing for newcomers is on a "taster" basis.
Whilst not a perfect analogy, I have discovered many new foods I probably would not have tried by sampling tasting menus, which gives small samples of what is on offer.
Many people would not dream of going to a classical concert or a full blown opera, but they will flock to a “Last Night Of The Proms” type event where they will listen to Nessum Dorma and various other classical pieces. I’m sure to lovers of classical music these events are an anathema but they do bring classical music and opera to the attention of a wider audience.
So why not stage a single race meeting with samples of the various forms on offer?
I agree with Grassy and Colin that current racegoers should not be alienated, which is why I suggested these mixed meetings should be specifically aimed at the new racegoers, as a taste of what racing can offer. If these meetings don’t appeal to “traditionalists” then fine don’t go, there are plenty of alternative “standard” meetings available.
It may not work but we will not know until it is given a go and I don’t see what can be lost by giving it a try – if it doesn’t work then scrap the idea.
However I think it is better to try and fail than not to try at all.
Paul, it still doesn’t answer the fundamental question of why novice racegoers would be more attracted to a mixed meeting, than a regular meeting.
Such a position assumes that there is demand out there which is going un-tapped. My position is that the demand isn’t there in the first place.
If Racing’s desire is to increase its market share of the leisure pound, it needs to address the reasons for that lack of demand. The mixed-meeting proposal – along with decimal odds and other low-level (i.e. cheap) changes, do not address the dual problems of the general public’s perception of racing as a closeted, border-line moody, vehicle for gambling, and the length of the learning process associated with ‘understanding’ the game to any worthwhile extent.
The proposals emanting from RFC are a sticking-plaster approach to a patient who evidently needs surgery.
If racing just wants more bums on seats then it’s relatively easy:
1. Cheaper entrance fees
2. Cheaper drinks, food etc.
3. Transform the underneath’s of Grandstand’s into a post-race nightclub, particularly in light of the recent move for after racing concerts.If however it wants a classier clientele then what attracts youngsters to Show Jumping, Dressage, 3DE over racing?
Is racing seen as being too betting orientated? Why aren’t parents taking their horsey children to the races?
My ‘horsey’ daughter wasn’t in the slightest bit interested in racing, and even now her eyes glaze over with boredom if I try to talk about it. None of her ‘horsey’ friends were interested either. I made a point of taking them to Uttoxeter whenever I went but, 15 years later only one of them takes an interest in it and that’s possibly because her husband follows it. Horsey kids just want to spend their weekends mucking out stables and plaiting manes. One Grand National day my daughters friends came round to watch the race with me, but she went off on a hack with another friend. I’d love to know if any of the kids that we’ve lost touch with take an interest at all. I did my best…
Anthony,
The idea of ten three year old colts coming round the top bend at Kempton or Southwell to the strains of "Ride of the Valkyries" on a top quality sound system is just irresistible.
Went to Wigan’s DW stadium on Tuesday night and their PA is louder than the Nottingham Arena – and that’s indoors! The sound technology is out there – and enough to fill a racecourse.
Call it atmospheric Viagra; a quiet AW meeting with a couple of hundred addicts and obsessives would be an ideal crash test dummy for the music/racing hybrid. I think you would double attendances in weeks – its something new for a start.
Anyway, Ipods are just insularity batteries, chief: both music and horse racing are best savoured as live, communal experiences. Imo of course.
Call it atmospheric Viagra; a quiet AW meeting with a couple of hundred addicts and obsessives would be an ideal crash test dummy for the music/racing hybrid. I think you would double attendances in weeks – its something new for a start.
Something by The Grumbleweeds would be more appropriate than Wagner’s opus, Max.
What happened is Highland Wedding kept friggin winning and was so far ahead of the field he was finsihed before one or two of my fancies had gained a length……Annoyed, I scrapped the thing a week or so before the race and picked some monkey who’s probably still running and of course Highland Wedding hacked up.
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